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Ken Forkish says basically this in Flour Salt Yeast, but I also assume it is relatively well known among the more empirically-minded bakers. In any case the fla

by plorg 3y ago

Ken Forkish says basically this in Flour Salt Yeast, but I also assume it is relatively well known among the more empirically-minded bakers. In any case the flavors developed in the bread will have much more to do with both the hydration of the dough and the temperature it rises at (as I understand it these will affect the balance of acetic and lactic acid development as well as the CO2 and trace ethanol production in the starter). In Ken's book he asserts that the difference in flavor between sourdough in different places has more to do with local(ly-developed) tastes, recipes, and practices. My sense is that you would have to be a very practiced (that is, consistent) baker to notice the difference imparted by the possibility culture in your own bread.

carlmr 3y ago
>Ken Forkish says basically this in Flour Salt Yeast To anybody reading this. I can not recommend this book enough. It takes you from making so so bread to amazing bread if you read it for a day or two.
- barsonme 3y ago
  My only complaint is that his sourdough starter chapter has you make buckets of the stuff. Maybe it’s supposed to make it more difficult to screw up, I dunno.
  - deaddodo 3y ago
    He makes everything at industrial yields and doesn't bother to adjust for home use/yields.
    - dredmorbius 3y ago
      And, protip: the secret is bakers' percentages. That is, to scale a recipe up or down, hold the relationships of ingredients proportionate to that of flour, by mass. E.g., a typical starter is fed at a 100% ratio: 1 unit of flour to one unit of water. So, 100g, 1,000g, 200g, whatevs. Similarly for your dough, which is often described in terms of hydration. A very low hydration might be 50%, a typical novice dough about 60--65% (excellent for pizza crusts and rolls in my experience), 80% should start giving a very open crumb (with large voids and bubbles), and 100%+ used for high whole-grain flour, or very open-crumb breads. Higher hydration makes for more challenging handling, though with time most bakers develop a feel for this. There are of course a myriad of other factors, and one of the joys (or frustrations) of sourdough baking is exploring those parameters. My experience is that even my disasters taste amazing, though visual appearances may be less impressive. Amongst those: temperature (hugely significant for both starter and sponge/dough/proofing), proofing time (warm and cold/retarded), types of flour, age of flour, oven temperatures, humidity, and probably a whole lot more. Again, even when things don't go to plan, the results are almost always rewarding. When you do happen to hit the magic balance, it's amazing. My bad batches are still amongst the best bread I've ever eaten. Good baking books and online guides will discuss this.
      - carlmr 3y ago
        I don't know what everyone is on about, Ken discusses exactly this in the book. I guess most people didn't read the important part.
  - garof 3y ago
    His follow up 'Evolutions in Bread' is scaled down for single loaves, either the round or in a bread pan. Including the starter. Also the discard problem is addressed.
- i_am_proteus 3y ago
  I found Forkish's book to be skippable. A lot of that flufftype "writing about thoughts about food" content to increase the length, similar to what you might find on a web log. A good book on bread is called Bread and it is by Jeffrey Hamelman, published by Wiley. He understands you might not know anything about bread. All recipes are well-explained and scaled to both the home kitchen and the professional bakery. No web log style writing to waste the reader's time.
  - carlmr 3y ago
    I can't really follow your criticism. There is some parts about why he started baking bread. But you can easily discern that from the meat of the book if you don't want to read it. Then there's an in-depth explanation of the techniques used in the recipes. You shouldn't skip this obviously if you don't know it. Then there are the recipes which are short and to the point. And if you read the part about technique you understand bakers percentages and know exactly how to scale it to home kitchen needs, whether you're single or a small family.
deaddodo 3y ago
> My sense is that you would have to be a very practiced (that is, consistent) baker to notice the difference imparted by the possibility culture in your own bread. The difference that San Francisco lactic bacteria impart on bread flavoring is obvious and pronounced. It does not take an expert or particularly trained taster to taste. It is a literal mutant strain of the bacteria. I do agree, however, that this statement is probably true of other regional varieties of naturally leavened breads. Assuming everything else is equal.

by plorg 3y ago

carlmr 3y ago

>Ken Forkish says basically this in Flour Salt Yeast To anybody reading this. I can not recommend this book enough. It takes you from making so so bread to amazing bread if you read it for a day or two.

barsonme 3y ago
My only complaint is that his sourdough starter chapter has you make buckets of the stuff. Maybe it’s supposed to make it more difficult to screw up, I dunno.
- deaddodo 3y ago
  He makes everything at industrial yields and doesn't bother to adjust for home use/yields.
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    And, protip: the secret is bakers' percentages. That is, to scale a recipe up or down, hold the relationships of ingredients proportionate to that of flour, by mass. E.g., a typical starter is fed at a 100% ratio: 1 unit of flour to one unit of water. So, 100g, 1,000g, 200g, whatevs. Similarly for your dough, which is often described in terms of hydration. A very low hydration might be 50%, a typical novice dough about 60--65% (excellent for pizza crusts and rolls in my experience), 80% should start giving a very open crumb (with large voids and bubbles), and 100%+ used for high whole-grain flour, or very open-crumb breads. Higher hydration makes for more challenging handling, though with time most bakers develop a feel for this. There are of course a myriad of other factors, and one of the joys (or frustrations) of sourdough baking is exploring those parameters. My experience is that even my disasters taste amazing, though visual appearances may be less impressive. Amongst those: temperature (hugely significant for both starter and sponge/dough/proofing), proofing time (warm and cold/retarded), types of flour, age of flour, oven temperatures, humidity, and probably a whole lot more. Again, even when things don't go to plan, the results are almost always rewarding. When you do happen to hit the magic balance, it's amazing. My bad batches are still amongst the best bread I've ever eaten. Good baking books and online guides will discuss this.
    - carlmr 3y ago
      I don't know what everyone is on about, Ken discusses exactly this in the book. I guess most people didn't read the important part.
- garof 3y ago
  His follow up 'Evolutions in Bread' is scaled down for single loaves, either the round or in a bread pan. Including the starter. Also the discard problem is addressed.
i_am_proteus 3y ago
I found Forkish's book to be skippable. A lot of that flufftype "writing about thoughts about food" content to increase the length, similar to what you might find on a web log. A good book on bread is called Bread and it is by Jeffrey Hamelman, published by Wiley. He understands you might not know anything about bread. All recipes are well-explained and scaled to both the home kitchen and the professional bakery. No web log style writing to waste the reader's time.
- carlmr 3y ago
  I can't really follow your criticism. There is some parts about why he started baking bread. But you can easily discern that from the meat of the book if you don't want to read it. Then there's an in-depth explanation of the techniques used in the recipes. You shouldn't skip this obviously if you don't know it. Then there are the recipes which are short and to the point. And if you read the part about technique you understand bakers percentages and know exactly how to scale it to home kitchen needs, whether you're single or a small family.

deaddodo 3y ago

> My sense is that you would have to be a very practiced (that is, consistent) baker to notice the difference imparted by the possibility culture in your own bread. The difference that San Francisco lactic bacteria impart on bread flavoring is obvious and pronounced. It does not take an expert or particularly trained taster to taste. It is a literal mutant strain of the bacteria. I do agree, however, that this statement is probably true of other regional varieties of naturally leavened breads. Assuming everything else is equal.