4 ms·

Practically speaking humans are born relatively underdeveloped and spend much of their first year catching up to where other animals start. If we spent more tim

Practically speaking humans are born relatively underdeveloped and spend much of their first year catching up to where other animals start. If we spent more time baking we would have trouble getting out of the birth canal because we have such large heads (we already have enough trouble as is). It's easy to conjecture how that may have come to be. Marsupials are an interesting comparison with similar but different traits. For what it's worth there are also countless animals which start out very helpless, including many birds which are wholly incapable of flight for some time, and for which learning is not always an easy process. The bird in question is closer to an exception than a rule.

chasd00 3y ago
> if we spent more time baking we would have trouble getting out of the birth canal because we have such large heads Human birth seems strangely difficult. If you’ve never witnessed a live human birth it’s very traumatic with lots and lots of things that can/do go wrong. I can’t think of another mammal that struggles as hard as humans do during birth. It makes me wonder how humans have survived as long as we have.
- xyzzy_plugh 3y ago
  Well, historically, we didn't. Infant mortality is continuously at record lows. Modern medicine means that we can handle many things that can/do go wrong. We're effectively propagating that difficulty and it compounds generationally (imagine your bloodline has unusually large heads...) but we're smart enough to circumvent fate and the net result would appear to be positive. Much of what humans do approaches the limit of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Is life better than it has ever been, practically speaking, everywhere? With some exception granted to the last couple of years, yes, and even without, probably yes. I find it rather disturbing to think about. Diversification is really our only long term hope (hedging so to speak) and in many ways we're constantly moving away from that. If we were suddenly space faring colonizers, or if there were another dark age, then that would cease to be true, for better or for worse.
- ip26 3y ago
  Our heads are big to fit our brain. Our pelvis is shaped and structured for upright gait, and so not big. The struggle is indirectly due to the traits that drive or success.
  - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
    Are our heads actually unusually big, for a mammal scaled to our size? I've often wondered about this. Especially for a mammal with front-facing eyes.
    - ip26 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain–body_mass_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain–body_mass_ratio It's interesting to note our peers in this regard. Mice have a two-piece pelvis, and dolphins have no pelvis at all.
      - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
        OMG of course there's a wikipedia page for it! Thank you :-)
- lukan 3y ago
  "If you’ve never witnessed a live human birth it’s very traumatic with lots and lots of things that can/do go wrong." I think that is a specific cultural view, to assume it is traumatic. I certainly did not think so. And that human birth is hard, has the evolutionary roots in going bipedal and walking upright as far as I know. Being upright blocks the pelvis, being down, opens it. Apes who go 4 feet, do not struggle (so hard).
  - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
    > I certainly did not think so. Were you the one giving birth?
    - lukan 3y ago
      No, but it was implied, witnessing alone is traumatic. (And I did witnessed other becoming fathers, who couldn't handle it and required medical attention themself) And certainly quite some women experience it as traumatic, but not all of them.
      - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
        I don't think it was necessarily implied, actually. Depends how you parse that sentence. For example it goes on to say "and lots of things can go wrong". But that is very much about the birth, not the observation. Either way, I am not sure that watching a couple of births qualifies anyone to say whether birth being "traumatic" is a question of cultural assumption :-)
        lukan 3y ago
        "Either way, I am not sure that watching a couple of births qualifies anyone to say whether birth being "traumatic" is a question of cultural assumption" No, but talking with women who say convincingly, they did not perceive it as traumatic is enough for me to conclude that births are not traumatic by itself. They can be, but I have the suspicion, that is culturally enforced, but that seems to change slowly.
taneq 3y ago
> The bird in question is closer to an exception than a rule. It doesn't flop out of the nest immediately after leaving the egg, though, right? This is more like a 3 year old child learning to ride a bike on the first go (still impressive) than a newborn infant doing so.

chasd00 3y ago

> if we spent more time baking we would have trouble getting out of the birth canal because we have such large heads Human birth seems strangely difficult. If you’ve never witnessed a live human birth it’s very traumatic with lots and lots of things that can/do go wrong. I can’t think of another mammal that struggles as hard as humans do during birth. It makes me wonder how humans have survived as long as we have.

xyzzy_plugh 3y ago
Well, historically, we didn't. Infant mortality is continuously at record lows. Modern medicine means that we can handle many things that can/do go wrong. We're effectively propagating that difficulty and it compounds generationally (imagine your bloodline has unusually large heads...) but we're smart enough to circumvent fate and the net result would appear to be positive. Much of what humans do approaches the limit of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Is life better than it has ever been, practically speaking, everywhere? With some exception granted to the last couple of years, yes, and even without, probably yes. I find it rather disturbing to think about. Diversification is really our only long term hope (hedging so to speak) and in many ways we're constantly moving away from that. If we were suddenly space faring colonizers, or if there were another dark age, then that would cease to be true, for better or for worse.
ip26 3y ago
Our heads are big to fit our brain. Our pelvis is shaped and structured for upright gait, and so not big. The struggle is indirectly due to the traits that drive or success.
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  Are our heads actually unusually big, for a mammal scaled to our size? I've often wondered about this. Especially for a mammal with front-facing eyes.
  - ip26 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain–body_mass_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain–body_mass_ratio It's interesting to note our peers in this regard. Mice have a two-piece pelvis, and dolphins have no pelvis at all.
    - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
      OMG of course there's a wikipedia page for it! Thank you :-)
lukan 3y ago
"If you’ve never witnessed a live human birth it’s very traumatic with lots and lots of things that can/do go wrong." I think that is a specific cultural view, to assume it is traumatic. I certainly did not think so. And that human birth is hard, has the evolutionary roots in going bipedal and walking upright as far as I know. Being upright blocks the pelvis, being down, opens it. Apes who go 4 feet, do not struggle (so hard).
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  > I certainly did not think so. Were you the one giving birth?
  - lukan 3y ago
    No, but it was implied, witnessing alone is traumatic. (And I did witnessed other becoming fathers, who couldn't handle it and required medical attention themself) And certainly quite some women experience it as traumatic, but not all of them.
    - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
      I don't think it was necessarily implied, actually. Depends how you parse that sentence. For example it goes on to say "and lots of things can go wrong". But that is very much about the birth, not the observation. Either way, I am not sure that watching a couple of births qualifies anyone to say whether birth being "traumatic" is a question of cultural assumption :-)
      - lukan 3y ago
        "Either way, I am not sure that watching a couple of births qualifies anyone to say whether birth being "traumatic" is a question of cultural assumption" No, but talking with women who say convincingly, they did not perceive it as traumatic is enough for me to conclude that births are not traumatic by itself. They can be, but I have the suspicion, that is culturally enforced, but that seems to change slowly.

taneq 3y ago

> The bird in question is closer to an exception than a rule. It doesn't flop out of the nest immediately after leaving the egg, though, right? This is more like a 3 year old child learning to ride a bike on the first go (still impressive) than a newborn infant doing so.