8 ms·

Keyboards and a trackpads work with the Vision Pro

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
But if you're gonna be tied to a keyboard and mouse on a desk then why do you need a AVP and not a highdpi monitor and spend the rest on a vacation to Hawaii/Ibiza? The whole point of Vision Pro like devices is you wear your computer on your face always with you and the only peripherals you need are your eyes and hands also always on you.
- martin_ 3y ago
  in part, it may serve as a substitute to highdpi monitor while you’re in Hawaii
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    It's not highdpi. It's only 4K per eye and that's over the entire field of vision. Highdpi would be 4K on a 24" screen a foot or two away. The vision pro spreads those pixels out over a much bigger angle. It's got enough pixels to equal a few 1080p monitors though.
    - martin_ 3y ago
      I have one and have been using it as an external display, i find the resolution fantastic
      - bpye 3y ago
        That's great, but it's absolutely not high DPI. iFixit estimates the pixels per degree (ppd) of the AVP at ~34 [0]. A MacBook Pro at 20" is over 90 ppd [1]. A 27" 1920x1080 display at 22" would match the AVP at 34ppd. [0] - https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2-whats-the-display-resolution https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2... [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display#Models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display#Models
      - wkat4242 3y ago
        That may well be but it's not 4K unless you stretch it out over the entire field of view which would be crazy huge :) at a normal size it would be about 1080p effectively, maybe a little higher. See also this post which has more numbers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39323574 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39323574
  - k12sosse 3y ago
    That tanline will be worse than a snowboarders.
- pjerem 3y ago
  Dozens of Excel spreadsheets all across the room. Jira boards to the left, performance dashboards to the right, Gantt diagrams all over the ceiling. That’s what some people are dreaming at night.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Will that really make you more productive? Or do you just imagine it would?
    - brokencode 3y ago
      Have you ever tried using more than one monitor? It helps productivity. And have you ever upgraded your monitor to a larger one so you could fit more on the screen at once? That helps productivity too. Imagine being able to make as many monitors and in as many sizes as you want. And imagine being able to take them with you as a replacement for your laptop monitor.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >Have you ever tried using more than one monitor? It helps productivity. I have and I haven't been delivering code/tasks 50% faster when my monitor count increased by 50% from 2 to 3. Then went back to one monitor with virtual workspaces as that made me more productive than having to constantly move my neck eyes across a sprawl of windows. Plus having to manage windows around and tile them "just right" across several monitors always interrupted my flow, and worse, was costing me even more time when those windows were moving around and they weren't in the place where I remember I left them last time. >Imagine [...] But I'm not asking what you imagine it might do. I'm asking if it actually measurably improves your productivity, not if you imagine it could, because those are two very different things. I also imagined that having as many monitors as an operator from The Matrix would make me more productive but it hasn't. My coding and task delivery speed has stayed the same or even gone down inversely proportional to the number of monitors.
        3y ago
- corry 3y ago
  Nah, I disagree. If you ever work on a very large spreadsheet that spans several monitors' worth of space, both up and down, you quickly realize that multiple monitors are not it (the seams break everything). Can't do it with today's Vision Pro (I believe) but massive spreadsheet windows is coming and IMO the Excel gang is going to love it.
- threeseed 3y ago
  Some of us have to work on our holidays or travel extensively. So being able to bring us the same setup anywhere is a huge win. I think the future of Vision Pro will centre around two use cases: (a) content consumption like an iPad and (b) virtual monitors with a keyboard/mouse like a Mac.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >So being able to bring us the same setup anywhere is a huge win. So like ... a laptop? Plus maybe an extra portable USB-C display or your iPad as an external monitor? For your statement to be correct, it means that someone would have to be using the APV as their daily driver default setup for work in order to take it with them wherever they go, and not just use it as a secondary travel setup in parrales to their mains etup. Curious how many people will actually daily drive the AVP for 8 hour workday as their default work setup long term, versus the ones who will give up on it as soon as the hype/honeymoon period is over and then only use it sporadically.
    - cmcaleer 3y ago
      If you're going for months at a time and you're used to a couple of large monitors/ultrawide, a USB-C display is a grim downgrade and sidecar is really unreliable. Currently the Vision Pro doesn't beat my current solution cost-wise (just buy some monitors there and flip them for cheap before I leave) until like, 15 trips and the quality of it as a solution for doing what I want seems roughly similar so I'm avoiding it for now. If it was $1200 or so it would be a no-brainer for me.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >If you're going for months at a time But could you use the AVP for months at a time for work? That's the main question everyone's avoiding to answer. So far, everyone just plays with it for a couple of hours to post on social media "wow that's so cool, it's the future", but so far I haven't seen anyone saying they actually use it for work 8h/day 5 days/week long therm. All those who have AVPs still default to using their computers with monitors for their daily work. So then how can you say AVP is gonna replace your setup for months on end?
- mepian 3y ago
  A keyboard and a mouse are much more portable than any monitors, and you don't necessarily need a proper desk to use them for most applications.
- elicash 3y ago
  There are some differences, but it's useful to think of the iPad introduction in January 2010. Apple didn't create a keyboard for it until November 2015 with the "Smart Keyboard" and then nearly five years later, the "Magic Keyboard" that brought cursor support. Apple marketing is focusing on using hands, sure, but that they were so quick to make it compatible with keyboards/trackpads is revealing.
- pests 3y ago
  Keyboard and trackpad Mice are still not supported.
- ribosometronome 3y ago
  >The whole point of Vision Pro like devices is you wear your computer on your face always with you and the only peripherals you need are your eyes and hands also always on you. Clearly not, as the Magic Keyboard and Trackpad are well integrated (as is just using your laptop trackpad and keyboard). It's akin to using a keyboard folio with an iPad. It's a fully usable product without it and tons go without, but the keyboard folio definitely unlocks additional potential. The Ibiza-appeal would be that you can have a small backpack of stuff that lets you reach full productivity on the beach. I can't carry monitors the size I'm able to pop in on the AVP. To answer your question downwind, is it the same as like, an ergonomic desk set up? Nah. But it's pretty cool and surprisingly usable in many cases (this tricky spreadsheet is notable for not).
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >I can't carry monitors the size I'm able to pop in on the AVP. But will you also bring a mouse and keyboard with you to the beach with your AVP for work on the soun lounger? I'd love to see that. Hell I'd actually pay good money to see that. "Ladies and gentleman, come to see our latest attraction, today for your eyes only, feast your eyes on the 'techbro at the beach'. Please, no flash photography and no knocking on the glass."
    - cruano 3y ago
      > to the beach I think it's pretty clear that "the beach" here means your hotel room/airbnb. You wouldn't usually travel with your monitors, so you'd be stuck with your 14" screen. That's the use case this is addressing.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >I think it's pretty clear that "the beach" here means your hotel room/airbnb. Does it? In my mother tongue "to the beach" means the place with sand and water, not the accommodation.
        3y ago
- chaostheory 3y ago
  If I were to guess, there will likely be closer integration to iPhone in the future to make it more practical while on the move outside your home, hotel, or office. Let’s not forget that this is version 1.0, and it was clearly not designed for people to walk around in it outside their home or office.
- ActorNightly 3y ago
  I don't know if people realize this, but VR has been here for quite some time and it absolutely an unequivocally sucks for anything work.
PaulHoule 3y ago
Mice work fine with the MQ3. I log into my Windows machine with Immersed all the time with many virtual screens and less bandwidth hoggery so I'd have no problem using it over the WAN. It can track an Apple Magic Keyboard so it can show it to me when the passthrough is off.

But if you're gonna be tied to a keyboard and mouse on a desk then why do you need a AVP and not a highdpi monitor and spend the rest on a vacation to Hawaii/Ibiza? The whole point of Vision Pro like devices is you wear your computer on your face always with you and the only peripherals you need are your eyes and hands also always on you.

martin_ 3y ago
in part, it may serve as a substitute to highdpi monitor while you’re in Hawaii
- wkat4242 3y ago
  It's not highdpi. It's only 4K per eye and that's over the entire field of vision. Highdpi would be 4K on a 24" screen a foot or two away. The vision pro spreads those pixels out over a much bigger angle. It's got enough pixels to equal a few 1080p monitors though.
  - martin_ 3y ago
    I have one and have been using it as an external display, i find the resolution fantastic
    - bpye 3y ago
      That's great, but it's absolutely not high DPI. iFixit estimates the pixels per degree (ppd) of the AVP at ~34 [0]. A MacBook Pro at 20" is over 90 ppd [1]. A 27" 1920x1080 display at 22" would match the AVP at 34ppd. [0] - https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2-whats-the-display-resolution https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2... [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display#Models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display#Models
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      That may well be but it's not 4K unless you stretch it out over the entire field of view which would be crazy huge :) at a normal size it would be about 1080p effectively, maybe a little higher. See also this post which has more numbers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39323574 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39323574
- k12sosse 3y ago
  That tanline will be worse than a snowboarders.
pjerem 3y ago
Dozens of Excel spreadsheets all across the room. Jira boards to the left, performance dashboards to the right, Gantt diagrams all over the ceiling. That’s what some people are dreaming at night.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Will that really make you more productive? Or do you just imagine it would?
  - brokencode 3y ago
    Have you ever tried using more than one monitor? It helps productivity. And have you ever upgraded your monitor to a larger one so you could fit more on the screen at once? That helps productivity too. Imagine being able to make as many monitors and in as many sizes as you want. And imagine being able to take them with you as a replacement for your laptop monitor.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >Have you ever tried using more than one monitor? It helps productivity. I have and I haven't been delivering code/tasks 50% faster when my monitor count increased by 50% from 2 to 3. Then went back to one monitor with virtual workspaces as that made me more productive than having to constantly move my neck eyes across a sprawl of windows. Plus having to manage windows around and tile them "just right" across several monitors always interrupted my flow, and worse, was costing me even more time when those windows were moving around and they weren't in the place where I remember I left them last time. >Imagine [...] But I'm not asking what you imagine it might do. I'm asking if it actually measurably improves your productivity, not if you imagine it could, because those are two very different things. I also imagined that having as many monitors as an operator from The Matrix would make me more productive but it hasn't. My coding and task delivery speed has stayed the same or even gone down inversely proportional to the number of monitors.
      - 3y ago
corry 3y ago
Nah, I disagree. If you ever work on a very large spreadsheet that spans several monitors' worth of space, both up and down, you quickly realize that multiple monitors are not it (the seams break everything). Can't do it with today's Vision Pro (I believe) but massive spreadsheet windows is coming and IMO the Excel gang is going to love it.
threeseed 3y ago
Some of us have to work on our holidays or travel extensively. So being able to bring us the same setup anywhere is a huge win. I think the future of Vision Pro will centre around two use cases: (a) content consumption like an iPad and (b) virtual monitors with a keyboard/mouse like a Mac.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >So being able to bring us the same setup anywhere is a huge win. So like ... a laptop? Plus maybe an extra portable USB-C display or your iPad as an external monitor? For your statement to be correct, it means that someone would have to be using the APV as their daily driver default setup for work in order to take it with them wherever they go, and not just use it as a secondary travel setup in parrales to their mains etup. Curious how many people will actually daily drive the AVP for 8 hour workday as their default work setup long term, versus the ones who will give up on it as soon as the hype/honeymoon period is over and then only use it sporadically.
  - cmcaleer 3y ago
    If you're going for months at a time and you're used to a couple of large monitors/ultrawide, a USB-C display is a grim downgrade and sidecar is really unreliable. Currently the Vision Pro doesn't beat my current solution cost-wise (just buy some monitors there and flip them for cheap before I leave) until like, 15 trips and the quality of it as a solution for doing what I want seems roughly similar so I'm avoiding it for now. If it was $1200 or so it would be a no-brainer for me.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >If you're going for months at a time But could you use the AVP for months at a time for work? That's the main question everyone's avoiding to answer. So far, everyone just plays with it for a couple of hours to post on social media "wow that's so cool, it's the future", but so far I haven't seen anyone saying they actually use it for work 8h/day 5 days/week long therm. All those who have AVPs still default to using their computers with monitors for their daily work. So then how can you say AVP is gonna replace your setup for months on end?
mepian 3y ago
A keyboard and a mouse are much more portable than any monitors, and you don't necessarily need a proper desk to use them for most applications.
elicash 3y ago
There are some differences, but it's useful to think of the iPad introduction in January 2010. Apple didn't create a keyboard for it until November 2015 with the "Smart Keyboard" and then nearly five years later, the "Magic Keyboard" that brought cursor support. Apple marketing is focusing on using hands, sure, but that they were so quick to make it compatible with keyboards/trackpads is revealing.
pests 3y ago
Keyboard and trackpad Mice are still not supported.
ribosometronome 3y ago
>The whole point of Vision Pro like devices is you wear your computer on your face always with you and the only peripherals you need are your eyes and hands also always on you. Clearly not, as the Magic Keyboard and Trackpad are well integrated (as is just using your laptop trackpad and keyboard). It's akin to using a keyboard folio with an iPad. It's a fully usable product without it and tons go without, but the keyboard folio definitely unlocks additional potential. The Ibiza-appeal would be that you can have a small backpack of stuff that lets you reach full productivity on the beach. I can't carry monitors the size I'm able to pop in on the AVP. To answer your question downwind, is it the same as like, an ergonomic desk set up? Nah. But it's pretty cool and surprisingly usable in many cases (this tricky spreadsheet is notable for not).
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >I can't carry monitors the size I'm able to pop in on the AVP. But will you also bring a mouse and keyboard with you to the beach with your AVP for work on the soun lounger? I'd love to see that. Hell I'd actually pay good money to see that. "Ladies and gentleman, come to see our latest attraction, today for your eyes only, feast your eyes on the 'techbro at the beach'. Please, no flash photography and no knocking on the glass."
  - cruano 3y ago
    > to the beach I think it's pretty clear that "the beach" here means your hotel room/airbnb. You wouldn't usually travel with your monitors, so you'd be stuck with your 14" screen. That's the use case this is addressing.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >I think it's pretty clear that "the beach" here means your hotel room/airbnb. Does it? In my mother tongue "to the beach" means the place with sand and water, not the accommodation.
      - 3y ago
chaostheory 3y ago
If I were to guess, there will likely be closer integration to iPhone in the future to make it more practical while on the move outside your home, hotel, or office. Let’s not forget that this is version 1.0, and it was clearly not designed for people to walk around in it outside their home or office.
ActorNightly 3y ago
I don't know if people realize this, but VR has been here for quite some time and it absolutely an unequivocally sucks for anything work.

PaulHoule 3y ago

Mice work fine with the MQ3. I log into my Windows machine with Immersed all the time with many virtual screens and less bandwidth hoggery so I'd have no problem using it over the WAN. It can track an Apple Magic Keyboard so it can show it to me when the passthrough is off.