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Re 1990s PCs: If you're talking about the late 90s, not really. They standardized on x86(-64?) CPU talking to modular RAM and disk, in big boxes with plenty of

Re 1990s PCs: If you're talking about the late 90s, not really. They standardized on x86(-64?) CPU talking to modular RAM and disk, in big boxes with plenty of room. Overall 30 years went by with basically the same standard because it was sufficient. Early 90s I'm honestly too young to talk about, but afaik both hardware and software were more unique and became obsolete more quickly, and today we're actually trending that way again. Re processor sockets etc: When is the last time you had to throw away the phone you use because of a bad CPU? Bad connector on logic board? The whole thing is a single solid piece now, it doesn't really fail. It's basically screen and battery, and both are actually not that hard to replace on iPhones.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago
> overall 30 years went by with basically the same standard. That mobile phones lack any kind of meaningful standard is rather the problem, but the form factor hasn't significantly changed since the original iPhone. > When is the last time you had to throw away the phone you use because of a bad CPU? That's the point. The CPU doesn't go bad, but it's expensive, and right now if a kid snaps off the USB connector on your phone you may have to replace the entire logic board including the CPU. Likewise if you're attempting a repair of something else and you damage one of the tiny fragile internal connectors in the process. Then you need a new logic board, but that could be a $20 part instead of a $200 one if everything else wasn't soldered to it. > Bad connector on logic board, what connectors? The whole thing is a single solid piece now, it doesn't really fail. It's basically screen and battery, and both are actually not that hard to replace on iPhones. There are often separate connectors for not just the screen and battery but the camera(s), earpiece, antenna(s), and also stuff like this: https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Taptic_Engine https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Taptic_Engine As I said, there are already a lot of connectors in the thing. Adding two or three more wouldn't be a big deal, but would do a lot in terms of repair cost by separating the things most likely to break from the things with the highest cost. It would also give you the ability to do upgrades. Any kind of standard for attaching more memory or storage would significantly extend the practical life of most devices, because it's generally not the CPU that becomes too slow.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  Lack of standardization is the problem for repairability at least, but it has helped with progress. It's not like the government mandated a standard for desktop PCs, it just made sense for the industry. I'm not convinced that phone upgrades would work too well, due to incompatibilities. Except for storage. I think if the govt wants to be helpful here, mandating a microSD slot (at least an internal one) would improve longevity far more than the other things combined.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    > Lack of standardization is the problem for repairability at least, but it has helped with progress. What progress? How would having a standard memory or storage connector suitable to the form factor stifle progress? > It's not like the government mandated a standard for desktop PCs, it just made sense for the industry. It makes sense in any industry where there are a large number of companies that have to interoperate with each other. The big problem with phones is that there aren't a large number of companies -- the SoCs are pretty much all made by Qualcomm, Apple and Samsung and Apple and Samsung don't sell a lot of chips to third party OEMs. What they ought to do is break them up so there is some real competition in the market, or at least stop letting them buy up their competitors. But if that isn't going to happen then something else needs to happen, because the status quo is broken. > I'm not convinced that phone upgrades would work too well, due to incompatibilities. There is a new form factor for memory called CAMM, quite space efficient. Suppose there was a smaller version of that suitable for phones, all the phones used it, and then compatibility exists in the sense that every phone using DDR5 is compatible with every other phone using DDR5, but if your phone takes DDR6 then you need DDR6, also a standard, just a newer one. Why would this not work? It works for everything else.
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      Standard memory connector already makes memory-on-chip a no-go. And we're past that even, cause we have storage-on-chip, which is both faster and more secure (in the "hardware security" sense which is of course sketchy but still a thing). Even on desktops now. I had a pretty loaded cheesegrater Mac Pro and replaced it with an M1 Mac mini, less upgradable but such a nice machine anyway. I could believe the phone chipmaking status quo is broken or monopolized if I saw a lack of progress and price increases. Instead, we've been getting remarkably faster and more versatile phone hardware at a steady pace. And most consumers care about that, not about modular upgrades. There are a few smaller areas I feel like the manufacturers are pushing consumers rather than listening to them, like removing headphone jacks to sell BT earbuds.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

> overall 30 years went by with basically the same standard. That mobile phones lack any kind of meaningful standard is rather the problem, but the form factor hasn't significantly changed since the original iPhone. > When is the last time you had to throw away the phone you use because of a bad CPU? That's the point. The CPU doesn't go bad, but it's expensive, and right now if a kid snaps off the USB connector on your phone you may have to replace the entire logic board including the CPU. Likewise if you're attempting a repair of something else and you damage one of the tiny fragile internal connectors in the process. Then you need a new logic board, but that could be a $20 part instead of a $200 one if everything else wasn't soldered to it. > Bad connector on logic board, what connectors? The whole thing is a single solid piece now, it doesn't really fail. It's basically screen and battery, and both are actually not that hard to replace on iPhones. There are often separate connectors for not just the screen and battery but the camera(s), earpiece, antenna(s), and also stuff like this: https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Taptic_Engine https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Taptic_Engine As I said, there are already a lot of connectors in the thing. Adding two or three more wouldn't be a big deal, but would do a lot in terms of repair cost by separating the things most likely to break from the things with the highest cost. It would also give you the ability to do upgrades. Any kind of standard for attaching more memory or storage would significantly extend the practical life of most devices, because it's generally not the CPU that becomes too slow.

hot_gril 3y ago
Lack of standardization is the problem for repairability at least, but it has helped with progress. It's not like the government mandated a standard for desktop PCs, it just made sense for the industry. I'm not convinced that phone upgrades would work too well, due to incompatibilities. Except for storage. I think if the govt wants to be helpful here, mandating a microSD slot (at least an internal one) would improve longevity far more than the other things combined.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  > Lack of standardization is the problem for repairability at least, but it has helped with progress. What progress? How would having a standard memory or storage connector suitable to the form factor stifle progress? > It's not like the government mandated a standard for desktop PCs, it just made sense for the industry. It makes sense in any industry where there are a large number of companies that have to interoperate with each other. The big problem with phones is that there aren't a large number of companies -- the SoCs are pretty much all made by Qualcomm, Apple and Samsung and Apple and Samsung don't sell a lot of chips to third party OEMs. What they ought to do is break them up so there is some real competition in the market, or at least stop letting them buy up their competitors. But if that isn't going to happen then something else needs to happen, because the status quo is broken. > I'm not convinced that phone upgrades would work too well, due to incompatibilities. There is a new form factor for memory called CAMM, quite space efficient. Suppose there was a smaller version of that suitable for phones, all the phones used it, and then compatibility exists in the sense that every phone using DDR5 is compatible with every other phone using DDR5, but if your phone takes DDR6 then you need DDR6, also a standard, just a newer one. Why would this not work? It works for everything else.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    Standard memory connector already makes memory-on-chip a no-go. And we're past that even, cause we have storage-on-chip, which is both faster and more secure (in the "hardware security" sense which is of course sketchy but still a thing). Even on desktops now. I had a pretty loaded cheesegrater Mac Pro and replaced it with an M1 Mac mini, less upgradable but such a nice machine anyway. I could believe the phone chipmaking status quo is broken or monopolized if I saw a lack of progress and price increases. Instead, we've been getting remarkably faster and more versatile phone hardware at a steady pace. And most consumers care about that, not about modular upgrades. There are a few smaller areas I feel like the manufacturers are pushing consumers rather than listening to them, like removing headphone jacks to sell BT earbuds.