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Alright, maybe I’m out of touch, but I don’t think electricity is expensive in California. Even during 115 degree heatwaves in a 70-year-old, 3-bedroom, single

Alright, maybe I’m out of touch, but I don’t think electricity is expensive in California. Even during 115 degree heatwaves in a 70-year-old, 3-bedroom, single-family home. Most I paid was $100 in a month with 2 people with gaming computers working from home. Not everyone has that kind of money, but my point is that most people have cell service and other services which add up to more than electricity costs. That’s fine, I make no judgement of what people spend. I’m just setting a comparison. For how much value electricity provides us and how much we use it, I wouldn’t call it expensive, even in California. YMMV by city, but it wasn’t an issue in Sacramento. The real monster is climate change, and so here we have a chicken-and-egg problem combined with wealth disparity. I think we need comprehensive social program packages to address this.

bagels 3y ago
How? It's $0.52/kwh here, and before that rate increase, we were paying (edit) $278/mo in the summer for similar (70 year old 3 bedroom house), and slightly lower temepratures.
- lex-lightning 3y ago
  Time-of-day program with SMUD. Ran the AC as cool as it could go before peak, turned it off during peak. At move-in we dumped multiple feet of insulation (more than code requires) into the place. At worst it got to 80 degrees. Might have been a bit over $100, but I’m just as flabbergasted at your $278.
  - lex-lightning 3y ago
    Lol. Dogpile away. Imma count my money I saved and sit here in my early retirement.
  - what_ever 3y ago
    I think you are out of touch. You need to compare the PGE rates with SMUD to get the picture. https://www.smud.org/en/Rate-Information/Residential-rates https://www.smud.org/en/Rate-Information/Residential-rates https://www.pge.com/assets/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/residential-electric-rate-plan-pricing.pdf.coredownload.pdf https://www.pge.com/assets/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/resid... (PDF File) PGE's off-peak rates are 3x SMUD's off-peak rates. PGE's peak rates are 1.5x to almost 2x of SMUD's peak rates.
    - lex-lightning 3y ago
      There’s no need to be disrespectful. Just as I need to understand that you have a different rate than I did, vice versa. You’re missing the actual point of my original post
      - what_ever 3y ago
        > Alright, maybe I’m out of touch, but I don’t think electricity is expensive in California. This was your first comment in the thread. If you don't want the point of your original post to be missed, don't make it cryptic and have surprised pikachu face when multiple people miss your point. We are not attending a stand up comedy here to understand your tone in this text format.
- tomschlick 3y ago
  For context of how crazy that is... here in OH we pay ~$0.12/kwh
  - secabeen 3y ago
    Another factor is topography. Ohio is pretty flat and running power lines around it is not that hard. California is big and has lots of rugged terrain. It costs a lot more to bring power to the small town in the California mountains, and those costs have to be paid by the urban and sub-urban customers of our large state-wide utilities.
    - lazide 3y ago
      In reality - PG&E has been soaking the ratepayer for decades while doing terrible maintenance - and now gets to soak the ratepayer again while fixing all the terrible issues they themselves created in the least efficient method possible. It’s truly amazing to behold.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      Keep in mind PG&E rates had to cover billions in stock buybacks, billions in dividends annually, hundreds of millions in fighting municipal power, and billions in profit annually. The terrain isn't the problem, greed is.
    - tomschlick 3y ago
      I used to live in PA and have several family members on both sides there. No matter the topography the rates are still around that.
  - naijaboiler 3y ago
    My mom in Indiana pays $0.11/kwh. I pay $0.35/kwh here outside of Boston. The electricity generation part of my bill alone $0.19/kwh dwarfs her entire bill
GoatOfAplomb 3y ago
With the latest PG&E rate hike, my off-peak rate is 33c/kwh and the highest peak rate in 66c. I think the national average is 19c? That seems like a pretty drastic difference to me.
- mcbishop 3y ago
  The cost relative to other places is a different consideration than the value per dollar relative to our other expenses. OP is speaking to the latter.
acchow 3y ago
Can you share your rate during that period? Makes for a simpler comparison
gnicholas 3y ago
When I looked into this, I learned that we pay 2x what neighboring states pay.
- floxy 3y ago
  Looks like California has the 3rd highest rate after Hawaii and Rhode Island: https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/ https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/
nkingsy 3y ago
Let’s say 30 kWh per day is the norm to run ac in the summer. Assuming $.40 per kWh, which is lower than my PGE rate, that’s $360 per month just to run the ac. Not sure what kind of setup you have. $100 is my bill if I’m not home in the winter and leave everything off.
- lex-lightning 3y ago
  I’m picking up a sentiment from the downvotes so let me defend: I’m not lying lol. SMUD time of day. Ran the AC super cold during the night (so it would run the entire off-peak period). Ran it somewhat cool during mid-peak. Didn’t use it at all during peak. Other appliances I only ran at night. Installed lots of insulation at move-in. Like I said in OP, Sacramento. YMMV. But in any case I’d argue $360 is still not expensive per se given the value you’re getting. How many square feet were you cooling? What else was operating? It’s just about perspective. I was responding to the claim that electricity is expensive.
losvedir 3y ago
FYI, a monthly bill is essentially useless information. How big is your house? What are you using it for? How efficient is your fridge? Your A/C? How much is the fixed cost part of the bill? Etc. I'm assuming, since you mention Sacramento and peak hours, these[0] are your rates? Next time, share those so folks in other places can compare. That page has these: Summer: * Off-peak: $0.1425 kWh * Mid-peak: $0.1967 kWh * Peak: $0.3462 kWh Non-Summer * Off-peak: $0.1151 kWh * Peak: $0.1590 kWh That's pretty high, but I think middling to low for California. For comparison, in my town outside Chicago, we have a year-round all-day rate of $0.12 kWh. [0] https://www.smud.org/en/Rate-Information/Residential-rates https://www.smud.org/en/Rate-Information/Residential-rates
TheOsiris 3y ago
yeah, there's absolutely no "maybe" about it, you are definitely out of touch :). I don't know in what way exactly, but something is off. What is your per kwh rate exactly? You might be getting some kind of subsidies that you are not aware of, perhaps? I used to live in a 1200 sqft house in LA without any AC or anything consuming too much electricity, and 10 years ago before all the rate hikes I was still paying more than $100/month in west LA.
BobaFloutist 3y ago
That's because you're on SMUD, not PG&E, so you're not getting charged to cover the maintenance and liabilities of above-ground high-voltage power lines going into a forest on a mountain in the middle of nowhere.

bagels 3y ago

How? It's $0.52/kwh here, and before that rate increase, we were paying (edit) $278/mo in the summer for similar (70 year old 3 bedroom house), and slightly lower temepratures.

lex-lightning 3y ago
Time-of-day program with SMUD. Ran the AC as cool as it could go before peak, turned it off during peak. At move-in we dumped multiple feet of insulation (more than code requires) into the place. At worst it got to 80 degrees. Might have been a bit over $100, but I’m just as flabbergasted at your $278.
- lex-lightning 3y ago
  Lol. Dogpile away. Imma count my money I saved and sit here in my early retirement.
- what_ever 3y ago
  I think you are out of touch. You need to compare the PGE rates with SMUD to get the picture. https://www.smud.org/en/Rate-Information/Residential-rates https://www.smud.org/en/Rate-Information/Residential-rates https://www.pge.com/assets/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/residential-electric-rate-plan-pricing.pdf.coredownload.pdf https://www.pge.com/assets/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/resid... (PDF File) PGE's off-peak rates are 3x SMUD's off-peak rates. PGE's peak rates are 1.5x to almost 2x of SMUD's peak rates.
  - lex-lightning 3y ago
    There’s no need to be disrespectful. Just as I need to understand that you have a different rate than I did, vice versa. You’re missing the actual point of my original post
    - what_ever 3y ago
      > Alright, maybe I’m out of touch, but I don’t think electricity is expensive in California. This was your first comment in the thread. If you don't want the point of your original post to be missed, don't make it cryptic and have surprised pikachu face when multiple people miss your point. We are not attending a stand up comedy here to understand your tone in this text format.
tomschlick 3y ago
For context of how crazy that is... here in OH we pay ~$0.12/kwh
- secabeen 3y ago
  Another factor is topography. Ohio is pretty flat and running power lines around it is not that hard. California is big and has lots of rugged terrain. It costs a lot more to bring power to the small town in the California mountains, and those costs have to be paid by the urban and sub-urban customers of our large state-wide utilities.
  - lazide 3y ago
    In reality - PG&E has been soaking the ratepayer for decades while doing terrible maintenance - and now gets to soak the ratepayer again while fixing all the terrible issues they themselves created in the least efficient method possible. It’s truly amazing to behold.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    Keep in mind PG&E rates had to cover billions in stock buybacks, billions in dividends annually, hundreds of millions in fighting municipal power, and billions in profit annually. The terrain isn't the problem, greed is.
  - tomschlick 3y ago
    I used to live in PA and have several family members on both sides there. No matter the topography the rates are still around that.
- naijaboiler 3y ago
  My mom in Indiana pays $0.11/kwh. I pay $0.35/kwh here outside of Boston. The electricity generation part of my bill alone $0.19/kwh dwarfs her entire bill

GoatOfAplomb 3y ago

With the latest PG&E rate hike, my off-peak rate is 33c/kwh and the highest peak rate in 66c. I think the national average is 19c? That seems like a pretty drastic difference to me.

mcbishop 3y ago
The cost relative to other places is a different consideration than the value per dollar relative to our other expenses. OP is speaking to the latter.

acchow 3y ago

Can you share your rate during that period? Makes for a simpler comparison

gnicholas 3y ago

When I looked into this, I learned that we pay 2x what neighboring states pay.

floxy 3y ago
Looks like California has the 3rd highest rate after Hawaii and Rhode Island: https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/ https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/

nkingsy 3y ago

Let’s say 30 kWh per day is the norm to run ac in the summer. Assuming $.40 per kWh, which is lower than my PGE rate, that’s $360 per month just to run the ac. Not sure what kind of setup you have. $100 is my bill if I’m not home in the winter and leave everything off.

lex-lightning 3y ago
I’m picking up a sentiment from the downvotes so let me defend: I’m not lying lol. SMUD time of day. Ran the AC super cold during the night (so it would run the entire off-peak period). Ran it somewhat cool during mid-peak. Didn’t use it at all during peak. Other appliances I only ran at night. Installed lots of insulation at move-in. Like I said in OP, Sacramento. YMMV. But in any case I’d argue $360 is still not expensive per se given the value you’re getting. How many square feet were you cooling? What else was operating? It’s just about perspective. I was responding to the claim that electricity is expensive.

losvedir 3y ago

FYI, a monthly bill is essentially useless information. How big is your house? What are you using it for? How efficient is your fridge? Your A/C? How much is the fixed cost part of the bill? Etc. I'm assuming, since you mention Sacramento and peak hours, these[0] are your rates? Next time, share those so folks in other places can compare. That page has these: Summer: * Off-peak: $0.1425 kWh * Mid-peak: $0.1967 kWh * Peak: $0.3462 kWh Non-Summer * Off-peak: $0.1151 kWh * Peak: $0.1590 kWh That's pretty high, but I think middling to low for California. For comparison, in my town outside Chicago, we have a year-round all-day rate of $0.12 kWh. [0] https://www.smud.org/en/Rate-Information/Residential-rates https://www.smud.org/en/Rate-Information/Residential-rates

TheOsiris 3y ago

yeah, there's absolutely no "maybe" about it, you are definitely out of touch :). I don't know in what way exactly, but something is off. What is your per kwh rate exactly? You might be getting some kind of subsidies that you are not aware of, perhaps? I used to live in a 1200 sqft house in LA without any AC or anything consuming too much electricity, and 10 years ago before all the rate hikes I was still paying more than $100/month in west LA.

BobaFloutist 3y ago

That's because you're on SMUD, not PG&E, so you're not getting charged to cover the maintenance and liabilities of above-ground high-voltage power lines going into a forest on a mountain in the middle of nowhere.