4 ms·

People are indeed too stupid to spot dangerous talk, which is why Qanon was able to attract the numbers it did despite being overt Nazi propaganda. "A group of

People are indeed too stupid to spot dangerous talk, which is why Qanon was able to attract the numbers it did despite being overt Nazi propaganda. "A group of pedophile elites form a shadow government that rules the world in secret and only we can stop them," is Nazi propaganda. After experiencing comment sections 2016-present, I understand why LLM trainers wouldn't want their models to churn out, "how do six million cookies fit in an oven lololol," style of content. Ideally we could get rid of that shit entirely instead of having LLMs greasing the pipeline for radicalizing gamers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right_pipeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right_pipeline I don't know what specific policies of OpenAI are being mocked with this website. But I seem to have more in common with the cynical vision.

mlsu 3y ago
This viewpoint is terrifying. Are we in the same comment sections? These Nazis you speak of say a lot about "dangerous talk" !
- plagiarist 3y ago
  On HN I have seen people whining about their "innocent conservative viewpoints" being censored, but it turned out those viewpoints were that black people were intellectually inferior based on studies of IQ. Like your counter-example elsewhere is that Facebook is a fine technology that helped your good friend find a partner. If we attribute that to Facebook, do we not also have to attribute, e.g., Myanmar? Don't situations like that prove that not only are people incapable of recognizing bad information, but also that these tools can exacerbate the effects when they are misused?
  - dash2 3y ago
    Are you suggesting we should censor IQ studies that show racial differences? That seems like a bad idea if, for example, you're interested in how good an education different racial groups are getting.
    - plagiarist 3y ago
      I am suggesting: You're making decisions for an LLM company. People start using your models to write articles making those claims. Not to promote equal access to education, but to promote delusions that specific groups are genetically inferior. What's your move?
      - EnigmaFlare 3y ago
        Is that not what the science says though? "inferior" is a bit of a loaded word but if you take the emotion out of it, we compare all sorts of things that way. It still sounds like you want AI to hide some science that's offensive to popular opinion.
        plagiarist 3y ago
        You... literally believe black people are less intellectually capable? No, I don't think that's what the science says. To the best of my knowledge the only thing that says that was a biased study comparing children of wildly different backgrounds, and has been completely discredited by serious scientists. I want AI to not assist people like whoever taught you to think that.
        EnigmaFlare 3y ago
        [flagged]
        dash2 3y ago
        To quote Wikipedia, which is not biased in favour of race science: > A 2001 meta-analysis of the results of 6,246,729 participants tested for cognitive ability or aptitude found a difference in average scores between black people and white people of 1.1 standard deviations. Consistent results were found for college and university application tests such as the Scholastic Aptitude Test (N = 2.4 million) and Graduate Record Examination (N = 2.3 million), as well as for tests of job applicants in corporate settings (N = 0.5 million) and in the military (N = 0.4 million). I don't actually think it is controversial that there are IQ differences between ethnic groups. What is controversial is (a) how much IQ means, is it a good measure, etc. and (b) are the causes of these differences genetic or environmental. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
protomolecule 3y ago
""A group of pedophile elites form a shadow government that rules the world in secret and only we can stop them," is Nazi propaganda." What does this have to do with Nazis?
- jstarfish 3y ago
  It's a revised response to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
  - protomolecule 3y ago
    Sorry, I still don't understand. For me Nazis are people who killed 26 million of Soviet citizens because they needed Lebensraum (living space) [0] for German people at the expense of other less worthy ethnicities. I don't see where pedos or shadow government fit in. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
    - Aerbil313 3y ago
      The Nazi movement was able to gain so much popularity and traction in a short time because it was a reaction to the sexual liberation and degeneracy which preceded it: https://muslimskeptic.com/2022/11/05/how-sexual-revolution-gave-rise-to-nazism/ https://muslimskeptic.com/2022/11/05/how-sexual-revolution-g... As we’ve seen, Weimar Germany was a hotbed of sex, much of it of the paid-for variety. Both adult men and women sold their bodies in the streets and clubs of Berlin. But child prostitutes were also bought and sold here. In fact, there was a booming and well-regulated industry, with pimps happy to cater to almost any taste.[1] 1: D.G. Hewitt, in History Collection
      - protomolecule 3y ago
        And I thought it was because of the draconian conditions of the Versailles peace treaty that ended the Great War. [0] "Germany accepted responsibility for the war and lost 68,000 km² of territory, including Alsace and Lorraine, which had been annexed in 1870, and 8 million inhabitants. Part of western Prussia was given to Poland, which gained access to the sea through the famous “Polish Corridor”, and Germany agreed to pay the crushing sum of 20 billion gold marks in reparations claimed by France. In addition, it lost most of its ore and agricultural production. Its colonies were confiscated, and its military strength was crippled. Humiliated, Germany seethed for revenge. A new war, which everyone had hoped to avoid, was already blowing up on the horizon almost as soon as the German delegation receded over it." [1] But thanks for your comment anyway. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles#Germany [1] https://en.chateauversailles.fr/discover/history/key-dates/treaty-versailles-1919 https://en.chateauversailles.fr/discover/history/key-dates/t...
kromem 3y ago
And yet when we've seen intentional attempts by neo-Nazis to have models echo their viewpoints by Grok or Gab's literal Adolf Hitler LLM the models default to telling them off as morons or disgusting. Maybe adding a greater degree of self-alignment will yield greater gains than keeping training wheels on indefinitely. We should probably be looking more to how humans have intrusive thoughts but have our prefrontal cortex and impulse control to keep them in check. Rather than prevent models from generating bad things ever, it's probably better long term to have a secondary process that catches and corrects it like our prefrontal cortex.

mlsu 3y ago

This viewpoint is terrifying. Are we in the same comment sections? These Nazis you speak of say a lot about "dangerous talk" !

plagiarist 3y ago
On HN I have seen people whining about their "innocent conservative viewpoints" being censored, but it turned out those viewpoints were that black people were intellectually inferior based on studies of IQ. Like your counter-example elsewhere is that Facebook is a fine technology that helped your good friend find a partner. If we attribute that to Facebook, do we not also have to attribute, e.g., Myanmar? Don't situations like that prove that not only are people incapable of recognizing bad information, but also that these tools can exacerbate the effects when they are misused?
- dash2 3y ago
  Are you suggesting we should censor IQ studies that show racial differences? That seems like a bad idea if, for example, you're interested in how good an education different racial groups are getting.
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    I am suggesting: You're making decisions for an LLM company. People start using your models to write articles making those claims. Not to promote equal access to education, but to promote delusions that specific groups are genetically inferior. What's your move?
    - EnigmaFlare 3y ago
      Is that not what the science says though? "inferior" is a bit of a loaded word but if you take the emotion out of it, we compare all sorts of things that way. It still sounds like you want AI to hide some science that's offensive to popular opinion.
      - plagiarist 3y ago
        You... literally believe black people are less intellectually capable? No, I don't think that's what the science says. To the best of my knowledge the only thing that says that was a biased study comparing children of wildly different backgrounds, and has been completely discredited by serious scientists. I want AI to not assist people like whoever taught you to think that.
        EnigmaFlare 3y ago
        [flagged]
        dash2 3y ago
        To quote Wikipedia, which is not biased in favour of race science: > A 2001 meta-analysis of the results of 6,246,729 participants tested for cognitive ability or aptitude found a difference in average scores between black people and white people of 1.1 standard deviations. Consistent results were found for college and university application tests such as the Scholastic Aptitude Test (N = 2.4 million) and Graduate Record Examination (N = 2.3 million), as well as for tests of job applicants in corporate settings (N = 0.5 million) and in the military (N = 0.4 million). I don't actually think it is controversial that there are IQ differences between ethnic groups. What is controversial is (a) how much IQ means, is it a good measure, etc. and (b) are the causes of these differences genetic or environmental. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

protomolecule 3y ago

""A group of pedophile elites form a shadow government that rules the world in secret and only we can stop them," is Nazi propaganda." What does this have to do with Nazis?

jstarfish 3y ago
It's a revised response to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
- protomolecule 3y ago
  Sorry, I still don't understand. For me Nazis are people who killed 26 million of Soviet citizens because they needed Lebensraum (living space) [0] for German people at the expense of other less worthy ethnicities. I don't see where pedos or shadow government fit in. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
  - Aerbil313 3y ago
    The Nazi movement was able to gain so much popularity and traction in a short time because it was a reaction to the sexual liberation and degeneracy which preceded it: https://muslimskeptic.com/2022/11/05/how-sexual-revolution-gave-rise-to-nazism/ https://muslimskeptic.com/2022/11/05/how-sexual-revolution-g... As we’ve seen, Weimar Germany was a hotbed of sex, much of it of the paid-for variety. Both adult men and women sold their bodies in the streets and clubs of Berlin. But child prostitutes were also bought and sold here. In fact, there was a booming and well-regulated industry, with pimps happy to cater to almost any taste.[1] 1: D.G. Hewitt, in History Collection
    - protomolecule 3y ago
      And I thought it was because of the draconian conditions of the Versailles peace treaty that ended the Great War. [0] "Germany accepted responsibility for the war and lost 68,000 km² of territory, including Alsace and Lorraine, which had been annexed in 1870, and 8 million inhabitants. Part of western Prussia was given to Poland, which gained access to the sea through the famous “Polish Corridor”, and Germany agreed to pay the crushing sum of 20 billion gold marks in reparations claimed by France. In addition, it lost most of its ore and agricultural production. Its colonies were confiscated, and its military strength was crippled. Humiliated, Germany seethed for revenge. A new war, which everyone had hoped to avoid, was already blowing up on the horizon almost as soon as the German delegation receded over it." [1] But thanks for your comment anyway. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles#Germany [1] https://en.chateauversailles.fr/discover/history/key-dates/treaty-versailles-1919 https://en.chateauversailles.fr/discover/history/key-dates/t...

kromem 3y ago

And yet when we've seen intentional attempts by neo-Nazis to have models echo their viewpoints by Grok or Gab's literal Adolf Hitler LLM the models default to telling them off as morons or disgusting. Maybe adding a greater degree of self-alignment will yield greater gains than keeping training wheels on indefinitely. We should probably be looking more to how humans have intrusive thoughts but have our prefrontal cortex and impulse control to keep them in check. Rather than prevent models from generating bad things ever, it's probably better long term to have a secondary process that catches and corrects it like our prefrontal cortex.