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'Family' and 'Apartment' are words that don't go very well together. Children/large families can be noisy. And they benefit from safe outdoor space to play. Fo

'Family' and 'Apartment' are words that don't go very well together. Children/large families can be noisy. And they benefit from safe outdoor space to play. For the childless WFH-er trying to concentrate, it's not much fun when kids noisily use the communal areas of apartment buildings as a playground. I know this from experience. Thankfully, noise-cancelling headphones are pretty good these days.

sabarn01 3y ago
Sure, but some people would choose it and we should allow them to.
houseatrielah 3y ago
An apartment could build an enclosed courtyard for outdoor space. Its a real shame our cities aren't multi-generational; it can be done, eg Tokyo. For the most part people move to the 'burbs when they have children, which is fine, but it shouldn't be the only option.
lex-lightning 3y ago
I agree that soundproofing should be a high priority in apartment buildings. I don’t know where you’re coming from as for safety. A single family home doesn’t imply safety and an apartment building can have both indoor and outdoor play areas.
Izikiel43 3y ago
> 'Family' and 'Apartment' are words that don't go very well together. In the USA it seems, everywhere else lots of families live in apartments, houses are expensive and/or far away from jobs. > Children/large families can be noisy. Yes, they can. You can also get a single neighbor blasting music at ungodly hours. > they benefit from safe outdoor space to play. There is this invention called parks, you know about them? It's open space which can be used by anyone. > For the childless WFH-er trying to concentrate, it's not much fun when kids noisily use the communal areas of apartment buildings as a playground. Complaint to your hoa or something.
medo-bear 3y ago
In my city (Eastern Europe) children (5+) play safely with other children without much adult supervision (none once they start going to school) in the abundant neighborhood playgrounds, surrounded by tall apartment buildings where they live. To me it is a very backward place where this is not deemed safe.
notfromhere 3y ago
I grew up in Soviet style housing and every apt building had a playground for kids right outside of it. Traffic really wasn’t an issue, the main roads were in front of the building and the playgrounds behind them. It would not be hard to design an enclosed communal area visible to all of the units. Lots of early suburbs had a communal design where the play area faced into the kitchens of the houses. You can easily have a family in an apartment if it has 2-3 bedrooms in it. That’s a very common design in Eastern Europe and other parts. It’s only in NA do people believe that you can only have a family in a SFH
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> 'Family' and 'Apartment' are words that don't go very well together. This is a very Anglo-spheric perspective, and it's because you guys can't build nice apartments I grew up in a nice apartment in Eastern Europe, the building had an enclosed courtyard and was a safe place for dozens of kids to play and socialise. You would let out kids without supervision, there are always adults around and they all know each-other. If something serious was going down, they would intervene and call relevant parents. There are always old grandmas sitting on the bench, gossiping and eating sunflower seeds, they were the biological CCTV system. You could also always look out the window and see what your kid is doing. Courtyard here is "don't step on grass', 'don't make noise', 'don't play games', so what the hell is it for? Quite frankly English and Americans just don't get how to build nice cities at all, that's why they always want to move to the suburbs or some village.
wolverine876 3y ago
> For the childless WFH-er trying to concentrate, it's not much fun when kids noisily use the communal areas of apartment buildings as a playground. Personally, I love the sound of kids - it creates an atmosphere of energy, joy, love, a lack of cynicism (such as found in certain HN posts :) ) ... It's a wonderful work environment and a palliative for working with (many) adults. (Sadly, they grow up to be adults like the rest. How does that happen? We suck at raising kids - they come out worse than when they were at 6 or 10 years old.)
- DANmode 3y ago
  Screams and laughter of joy, yes please! But, lots of parents today let their kids scream as if they're being fucking killed, like they're in some form of serious danger - for hours. When the "serious danger" is their sibling chasing them. Aside from being rude, this can be really disconcerting. Because, if you truly live in a community of people who care, some of your neighbors are stopping what they're doing for a minute to listen & make sure the child "screaming bloody murder" is actually fine.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Lol. I know that kid! Maybe we're neighbors? :) Seriously, that kid needs a little more love, attention, and maybe a doctor.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    As a parent I can inform you that some kids are just that way. My kids are not in danger, but they still yell once in a while. It is NOT rude for kids to yell. It is rude to live in a building where kids yelling can distract you. The problem is the building though, not the people/kids inside.
    - DANmode 3y ago
      You didn't read my comment thoroughly enough. I'll reiterate. It is not rude for kids to yell and laugh while playing. It is rude to let them keep screaming as if they're being hurt, in pain, or facing danger. It is rude if they're screaming for hours.
QuercusMax 3y ago
Sounds like you're the one with the problem, not the kids. Your apartment isn't properly soundproofed for you to use as an office. You haven't described a problem for the families with children, you've described a problem for others (you) who are using the building in a way it wasn't designed for.
- DANmode 3y ago
  Kids yelling for extended periods of time isn't welcome in any shared living space, no matter how you square it.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Kids yell for extended periods of time. Not all kids, but a large number of them do. If this is a problem it isn't with the kids. Demand better buildings.
    - QuercusMax 3y ago
      Precisely. Architecture and construction can be improved, but kids are always going to yell. And unless you really believe kids have to live in detached housing, the answer is obvious - fix our environment to keep kids from annoying their neighbors.
      - DANmode 3y ago
        > kids are always going to yell. Your kids, maybe. This isn't a ubiquitous perspective. But, some people don't tell their kids "no" about anything, so... I'll teach mine to mostly yell in big open spaces, while biking, on a playground, during sports.
        QuercusMax 3y ago
        Guess you don't have any kids with ADHD or other neurodivergence. Must be nice.
  - 3y ago

sabarn01 3y ago

Sure, but some people would choose it and we should allow them to.

houseatrielah 3y ago

An apartment could build an enclosed courtyard for outdoor space. Its a real shame our cities aren't multi-generational; it can be done, eg Tokyo. For the most part people move to the 'burbs when they have children, which is fine, but it shouldn't be the only option.

lex-lightning 3y ago

I agree that soundproofing should be a high priority in apartment buildings. I don’t know where you’re coming from as for safety. A single family home doesn’t imply safety and an apartment building can have both indoor and outdoor play areas.

Izikiel43 3y ago

> 'Family' and 'Apartment' are words that don't go very well together. In the USA it seems, everywhere else lots of families live in apartments, houses are expensive and/or far away from jobs. > Children/large families can be noisy. Yes, they can. You can also get a single neighbor blasting music at ungodly hours. > they benefit from safe outdoor space to play. There is this invention called parks, you know about them? It's open space which can be used by anyone. > For the childless WFH-er trying to concentrate, it's not much fun when kids noisily use the communal areas of apartment buildings as a playground. Complaint to your hoa or something.

medo-bear 3y ago

In my city (Eastern Europe) children (5+) play safely with other children without much adult supervision (none once they start going to school) in the abundant neighborhood playgrounds, surrounded by tall apartment buildings where they live. To me it is a very backward place where this is not deemed safe.

notfromhere 3y ago

I grew up in Soviet style housing and every apt building had a playground for kids right outside of it. Traffic really wasn’t an issue, the main roads were in front of the building and the playgrounds behind them. It would not be hard to design an enclosed communal area visible to all of the units. Lots of early suburbs had a communal design where the play area faced into the kitchens of the houses. You can easily have a family in an apartment if it has 2-3 bedrooms in it. That’s a very common design in Eastern Europe and other parts. It’s only in NA do people believe that you can only have a family in a SFH

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

> 'Family' and 'Apartment' are words that don't go very well together. This is a very Anglo-spheric perspective, and it's because you guys can't build nice apartments I grew up in a nice apartment in Eastern Europe, the building had an enclosed courtyard and was a safe place for dozens of kids to play and socialise. You would let out kids without supervision, there are always adults around and they all know each-other. If something serious was going down, they would intervene and call relevant parents. There are always old grandmas sitting on the bench, gossiping and eating sunflower seeds, they were the biological CCTV system. You could also always look out the window and see what your kid is doing. Courtyard here is "don't step on grass', 'don't make noise', 'don't play games', so what the hell is it for? Quite frankly English and Americans just don't get how to build nice cities at all, that's why they always want to move to the suburbs or some village.

wolverine876 3y ago

> For the childless WFH-er trying to concentrate, it's not much fun when kids noisily use the communal areas of apartment buildings as a playground. Personally, I love the sound of kids - it creates an atmosphere of energy, joy, love, a lack of cynicism (such as found in certain HN posts :) ) ... It's a wonderful work environment and a palliative for working with (many) adults. (Sadly, they grow up to be adults like the rest. How does that happen? We suck at raising kids - they come out worse than when they were at 6 or 10 years old.)

DANmode 3y ago
Screams and laughter of joy, yes please! But, lots of parents today let their kids scream as if they're being fucking killed, like they're in some form of serious danger - for hours. When the "serious danger" is their sibling chasing them. Aside from being rude, this can be really disconcerting. Because, if you truly live in a community of people who care, some of your neighbors are stopping what they're doing for a minute to listen & make sure the child "screaming bloody murder" is actually fine.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Lol. I know that kid! Maybe we're neighbors? :) Seriously, that kid needs a little more love, attention, and maybe a doctor.
- bluGill 3y ago
  As a parent I can inform you that some kids are just that way. My kids are not in danger, but they still yell once in a while. It is NOT rude for kids to yell. It is rude to live in a building where kids yelling can distract you. The problem is the building though, not the people/kids inside.
  - DANmode 3y ago
    You didn't read my comment thoroughly enough. I'll reiterate. It is not rude for kids to yell and laugh while playing. It is rude to let them keep screaming as if they're being hurt, in pain, or facing danger. It is rude if they're screaming for hours.

QuercusMax 3y ago

Sounds like you're the one with the problem, not the kids. Your apartment isn't properly soundproofed for you to use as an office. You haven't described a problem for the families with children, you've described a problem for others (you) who are using the building in a way it wasn't designed for.

DANmode 3y ago
Kids yelling for extended periods of time isn't welcome in any shared living space, no matter how you square it.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Kids yell for extended periods of time. Not all kids, but a large number of them do. If this is a problem it isn't with the kids. Demand better buildings.
  - QuercusMax 3y ago
    Precisely. Architecture and construction can be improved, but kids are always going to yell. And unless you really believe kids have to live in detached housing, the answer is obvious - fix our environment to keep kids from annoying their neighbors.
    - DANmode 3y ago
      > kids are always going to yell. Your kids, maybe. This isn't a ubiquitous perspective. But, some people don't tell their kids "no" about anything, so... I'll teach mine to mostly yell in big open spaces, while biking, on a playground, during sports.
      - QuercusMax 3y ago
        Guess you don't have any kids with ADHD or other neurodivergence. Must be nice.
- 3y ago