3 ms·

Mozilla places Microsoft under fire for using deceptive tricks in Edge

129 points by LordAtlas 3y ago

i_love_cookies 3y ago
[dead]
demurgos 3y ago
The original report was discussed a few days ago in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237567
- dang 3y ago
  Thanks! Macroexpanded: Over the edge: The use of design tactics to undermine browser choice - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237567 - Feb 2024 (315 comments)
benatkin 3y ago
Perhaps Microsoft should just pay them like Google does. Google's payment is supposed to be for search, but some of it has got to be to weaken their position against Chrome. CMV.
- Zelphyr 3y ago
  I would prefer they stop being borderline con artists.
  - chankstein38 3y ago
    It'd be really nice if most of the big players could stop that at this point. I feel like I'm seeing the beginnings of the cyberpunk future from movies. Just waiting for Elon to build some sort of cyborg suit and start trying to take over a large city.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  I don't think so. They're already so marginal that they're hardly a credible competitor anymore. Even edge is bigger now and that's a total turd.
  - benatkin 3y ago
    Also in terms of regulatory pressure.
  - ijhuygft776 3y ago
    > Even edge is bigger now and that's a total turd. Edge is Chrome anyways?
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Yeah but with a lot of additional user-hostile crap. A plugin that constantly monitors your activity and offers you 'coupons', a 'buy now pay later' scheme, lots of crappy ads for microsoft services. They didn't even wait for it to build a marketshare before they started thorougly enshittifying it.
redder23 3y ago
The irony of them going after M$ when Google funded them while totally using all their monopoly power to get everyone to move over to Chrome with ads on Google itself that Google pays for to be the default in Firefox. And they succeeded. Firefox has lost so hard because of Google, and they are going after M$. I mean, I do think they are right, it's just the irony. Google never needed deceptive tactics. They just spammed their ads on Google that said "get the new fast Browser" they did not even say "faster" they just spammed everyone for years and all the idiots went for it.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > and all the idiots went for it At the time a lot of people who transitioned to Chrome were still on IE7. They weren't future Firefox users. And Chrome was far faster and slicker when it come out than IE7, and a bit more than Firefox. It wasn't just advertising. It was better on a lot of useful metrics.
- HenryBemis 3y ago
  > Firefox has lost so hard because of I feel that it is the users that are losing, not FF. It's like the meme "those who know/those who don't". People still (and forever will) trade safety/security/privacy/rights for some convenience. I expect nothing better/less from Google or Microsoft. I don't expect people to "wake up" and see what they are giving up/away. They say that you can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. I think that by know every person online has come across on some article that states/warns about Chrome, Edge, Google ads/tracking, etc. We will not save those who don't want to be saved.
  - redder23 3y ago
    True, all the normie idiots do not give a flying fuck about privacy, and they do not even think of it as "trading" it for something, they just give it away without even thinking about it. Germans are a little different and in general a bit more privacy minded, that is why Firefox still has more market share in Germany than in other places. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germany https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germ... https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/us https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/us So that is PARTLY the reason, partly is because Google had search dominance of like 95% if something across the west, and they used it to push their Browser soooooo hard, I remember the times because I still used Google at the time. The amount of times I thought to myself "no I do not use your fucking spyware browser" I think they even used anti-AdBlock measures to push you the Chrome ads through adblockers. I was using Firefox and made a conscious decision to do so. Google was funding it, but its goals were noble, it was never actually that much slower than Chrome. I think there were times, long ago, where Mozilla actually advertised with speed and benchmarks and Firefox was faster at some point, I could be wrong. Today Blink for sure is a tiny bit faster, but I really not care, on a Desktop gaming rig you do not feel any difference.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
thimp 3y ago
Amazing. The first thing I use Edge for is to download Firefox. It pleads and begs me not to which makes me want to kill it harder. I hope the EU beats them with a stick until users can make an informed choice of not being upsold crapware by default. Edge has become like a sexually transmitted disease that just won't clear up however much cream you stick on it.
debacle 3y ago
Wake me up when Mozilla places Google under fire for something.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  Firefox is the fire. It's even in the name, see?
- nvr219 3y ago
  Gotta take out the rooks before you go for the queen
imhoguy 3y ago
"Ah Sh*, Here We Go Again", browser wars https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_C....

129 points by LordAtlas 3y ago

[dead]

The original report was discussed a few days ago in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237567

dang 3y ago
Thanks! Macroexpanded: Over the edge: The use of design tactics to undermine browser choice - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237567 - Feb 2024 (315 comments)

benatkin 3y ago

Perhaps Microsoft should just pay them like Google does. Google's payment is supposed to be for search, but some of it has got to be to weaken their position against Chrome. CMV.

Zelphyr 3y ago
I would prefer they stop being borderline con artists.
- chankstein38 3y ago
  It'd be really nice if most of the big players could stop that at this point. I feel like I'm seeing the beginnings of the cyberpunk future from movies. Just waiting for Elon to build some sort of cyborg suit and start trying to take over a large city.
wkat4242 3y ago
I don't think so. They're already so marginal that they're hardly a credible competitor anymore. Even edge is bigger now and that's a total turd.
- benatkin 3y ago
  Also in terms of regulatory pressure.
- ijhuygft776 3y ago
  > Even edge is bigger now and that's a total turd. Edge is Chrome anyways?
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Yeah but with a lot of additional user-hostile crap. A plugin that constantly monitors your activity and offers you 'coupons', a 'buy now pay later' scheme, lots of crappy ads for microsoft services. They didn't even wait for it to build a marketshare before they started thorougly enshittifying it.

redder23 3y ago

The irony of them going after M$ when Google funded them while totally using all their monopoly power to get everyone to move over to Chrome with ads on Google itself that Google pays for to be the default in Firefox. And they succeeded. Firefox has lost so hard because of Google, and they are going after M$. I mean, I do think they are right, it's just the irony. Google never needed deceptive tactics. They just spammed their ads on Google that said "get the new fast Browser" they did not even say "faster" they just spammed everyone for years and all the idiots went for it.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> and all the idiots went for it At the time a lot of people who transitioned to Chrome were still on IE7. They weren't future Firefox users. And Chrome was far faster and slicker when it come out than IE7, and a bit more than Firefox. It wasn't just advertising. It was better on a lot of useful metrics.
HenryBemis 3y ago
> Firefox has lost so hard because of I feel that it is the users that are losing, not FF. It's like the meme "those who know/those who don't". People still (and forever will) trade safety/security/privacy/rights for some convenience. I expect nothing better/less from Google or Microsoft. I don't expect people to "wake up" and see what they are giving up/away. They say that you can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. I think that by know every person online has come across on some article that states/warns about Chrome, Edge, Google ads/tracking, etc. We will not save those who don't want to be saved.
- redder23 3y ago
  True, all the normie idiots do not give a flying fuck about privacy, and they do not even think of it as "trading" it for something, they just give it away without even thinking about it. Germans are a little different and in general a bit more privacy minded, that is why Firefox still has more market share in Germany than in other places. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germany https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germ... https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/us https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/us So that is PARTLY the reason, partly is because Google had search dominance of like 95% if something across the west, and they used it to push their Browser soooooo hard, I remember the times because I still used Google at the time. The amount of times I thought to myself "no I do not use your fucking spyware browser" I think they even used anti-AdBlock measures to push you the Chrome ads through adblockers. I was using Firefox and made a conscious decision to do so. Google was funding it, but its goals were noble, it was never actually that much slower than Chrome. I think there were times, long ago, where Mozilla actually advertised with speed and benchmarks and Firefox was faster at some point, I could be wrong. Today Blink for sure is a tiny bit faster, but I really not care, on a Desktop gaming rig you do not feel any difference.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

thimp 3y ago

Amazing. The first thing I use Edge for is to download Firefox. It pleads and begs me not to which makes me want to kill it harder. I hope the EU beats them with a stick until users can make an informed choice of not being upsold crapware by default. Edge has become like a sexually transmitted disease that just won't clear up however much cream you stick on it.

debacle 3y ago

Wake me up when Mozilla places Google under fire for something.

LoganDark 3y ago
Firefox is the fire. It's even in the name, see?
nvr219 3y ago
Gotta take out the rooks before you go for the queen

imhoguy 3y ago

"Ah Sh*, Here We Go Again", browser wars https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_C....