4 ms·

For any manufacturer, repairing products is expensive (i.e. it decreases profit). That incentivizes two behaviors: 1. Make the product as reliable as possible.

For any manufacturer, repairing products is expensive (i.e. it decreases profit). That incentivizes two behaviors: 1. Make the product as reliable as possible. 2. Make the product non-repairable. Every company also increases profit by selling more units, so when a company's only performance metrics come from Wall Street, well, here we are. The only solution in the absence of significant competition (which applies to Apple) is regulation. There need to be laws that mandate not only repairability but also that Apple absorb the now-externalized societal cost of all the e-waste their devices produce.

hot_gril 3y ago
iPhones have the longest usable lifespan of any smartphone.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Sure, but they are still nothing compared to other things. I still use a tractor from 1939 (mostly for parades, but it works for anything it could have done new). My stove is from the 1980s and it still works like new. Can you use a gen1 iphone - it would only be about 15 years old (2g phone networks are being dismantled, and may only be on frequency that were not even allocated to phones when that was built). If it breaks what can you repair on it to make it work again? Of course sometimes it isn't worth repairing. I had my 50 years old furnace repaired 2 years ago - but I was already saving to replace it as a modern one is so much more efficient (I also knew the city was putting in natural gas pipes, so I wanted to wait)
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    You don't have to go outside the industry, or even the company. Apple computers from the start of the company up to the early 21st century are often still functional to this day and most were modular and easy to repair. Likewise, you can install modern Linux kernels on PCs (and Macs) going back to something like the i486 from 1989, and even supported versions of Windows can be installed on PCs that are ~20 years old. The market for mobile phones is abnormally dysfunctional.
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      Mobile phones are extremely small, feature-packed, and quickly-advancing compared to any of these things. Plenty of Android phonemakers have teased repairable phones, but the drawbacks don't make them worthwhile. I think the market has spoken. Apple deserves criticism for desktop PC repairability, though. At least in the past. There were several iterations of Mac mini or other desktops that they intentionally made harder to repairable with no gain. I don't even mean the T2 chips that at least have a semi-plausible excuse, I mean like soldering in the RAM or gluing together the body. Again the market has spoken; I think even the creative pro market went to Windows long ago.
      - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        The rate of advancement of PCs in the 90s was faster than it is for mobile phones today and many of those devices can run modern software to this day. Moreover, in both cases the primary difference is that the CPUs get faster and you get more memory and storage for the same price, which is irrelevant for the people using their phones primarily to make phone calls and send text messages, because the older hardware could do that when it was new and can still do it now. Which would allow people who need only that to buy a used phone and give people who need more than that someone to sell their old phone to. Making a phone modular isn't that complicated -- they, in fact, used to do it. Many flip phones had replaceable batteries that the user could so easily remove that they made external chargers in case you wanted two batteries. The amount of space and weight required to put a processor in a socket of the type traditionally used in laptops is negligible, even for a phone, but would significantly lower the cost of repairs because a broken connector on the logic board wouldn't require you to replace the expensive SoC. The electronics in many modern phones are already layered to preserve space and the contact points between layers are a natural position for modular component boundaries.
        hot_gril 3y ago
        Re 1990s PCs: If you're talking about the late 90s, not really. They standardized on x86(-64?) CPU talking to modular RAM and disk, in big boxes with plenty of room. Overall 30 years went by with basically the same standard because it was sufficient. Early 90s I'm honestly too young to talk about, but afaik both hardware and software were more unique and became obsolete more quickly, and today we're actually trending that way again. Re processor sockets etc: When is the last time you had to throw away the phone you use because of a bad CPU? Bad connector on logic board? The whole thing is a single solid piece now, it doesn't really fail. It's basically screen and battery, and both are actually not that hard to replace on iPhones.
- worewood 3y ago
  That's what he/she meant by "make the product as reliable as possible". This, however, does not exempt them from the responsibility of the e-waste created by their non-repairability.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    Repairability can come at a cost to longevity. Complicates the design and reduces the trustworthiness of used phones.
- dathinab 3y ago
  Yes it a major part of their marked strategy. In the past iPhones living long enough to allow a second hand marked was a major part of how they where able to capture such a huge market share. Without that they would have struggled to establish themself to the degree they have due to being "just for the wealthy". Also one of their main selling points is the label of a "super well build best of engineering" product. People still associate longevity with that. With the world wide financial situation of most not wealthy people getting worse in recent years and iPhone having gotten even more expensive longevity has become an increasing important reason why non-wealthy people might still buy new iPhones, even if it's second hand still for a high price. BUT the more they make them long lived the more they want repair (or worse upgrade) to not make monetary sense for anyone. At the same time the more they gain from pretending they care about repair, and it's just because of user safety and similar that the price of it is so high and/or it not being possible. I mean a "super well build best of engineering product" should normally be repairable right? Also Apple engines are not their sales team and they care about trying to make an actual "super well build best of engineering product" often looking down intentional brittle products.
- newaccount74 3y ago
  Until it cracks after an accidental fall. Apple's repair prices are so high, that often it's cheaper to buy the same model used rather than have it repaired. This ensures that people throw phones away rather than repair them, which increases demand for new phones.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    There are lots of third-party screen repair shops. Except it seems like screens are a lot stronger than before, and back when they weren't, everyone I knew just used a cracked screen until the phone was outdated enough to replace.

hot_gril 3y ago

iPhones have the longest usable lifespan of any smartphone.

bluGill 3y ago
Sure, but they are still nothing compared to other things. I still use a tractor from 1939 (mostly for parades, but it works for anything it could have done new). My stove is from the 1980s and it still works like new. Can you use a gen1 iphone - it would only be about 15 years old (2g phone networks are being dismantled, and may only be on frequency that were not even allocated to phones when that was built). If it breaks what can you repair on it to make it work again? Of course sometimes it isn't worth repairing. I had my 50 years old furnace repaired 2 years ago - but I was already saving to replace it as a modern one is so much more efficient (I also knew the city was putting in natural gas pipes, so I wanted to wait)
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  You don't have to go outside the industry, or even the company. Apple computers from the start of the company up to the early 21st century are often still functional to this day and most were modular and easy to repair. Likewise, you can install modern Linux kernels on PCs (and Macs) going back to something like the i486 from 1989, and even supported versions of Windows can be installed on PCs that are ~20 years old. The market for mobile phones is abnormally dysfunctional.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    Mobile phones are extremely small, feature-packed, and quickly-advancing compared to any of these things. Plenty of Android phonemakers have teased repairable phones, but the drawbacks don't make them worthwhile. I think the market has spoken. Apple deserves criticism for desktop PC repairability, though. At least in the past. There were several iterations of Mac mini or other desktops that they intentionally made harder to repairable with no gain. I don't even mean the T2 chips that at least have a semi-plausible excuse, I mean like soldering in the RAM or gluing together the body. Again the market has spoken; I think even the creative pro market went to Windows long ago.
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      The rate of advancement of PCs in the 90s was faster than it is for mobile phones today and many of those devices can run modern software to this day. Moreover, in both cases the primary difference is that the CPUs get faster and you get more memory and storage for the same price, which is irrelevant for the people using their phones primarily to make phone calls and send text messages, because the older hardware could do that when it was new and can still do it now. Which would allow people who need only that to buy a used phone and give people who need more than that someone to sell their old phone to. Making a phone modular isn't that complicated -- they, in fact, used to do it. Many flip phones had replaceable batteries that the user could so easily remove that they made external chargers in case you wanted two batteries. The amount of space and weight required to put a processor in a socket of the type traditionally used in laptops is negligible, even for a phone, but would significantly lower the cost of repairs because a broken connector on the logic board wouldn't require you to replace the expensive SoC. The electronics in many modern phones are already layered to preserve space and the contact points between layers are a natural position for modular component boundaries.
      - hot_gril 3y ago
        Re 1990s PCs: If you're talking about the late 90s, not really. They standardized on x86(-64?) CPU talking to modular RAM and disk, in big boxes with plenty of room. Overall 30 years went by with basically the same standard because it was sufficient. Early 90s I'm honestly too young to talk about, but afaik both hardware and software were more unique and became obsolete more quickly, and today we're actually trending that way again. Re processor sockets etc: When is the last time you had to throw away the phone you use because of a bad CPU? Bad connector on logic board? The whole thing is a single solid piece now, it doesn't really fail. It's basically screen and battery, and both are actually not that hard to replace on iPhones.
worewood 3y ago
That's what he/she meant by "make the product as reliable as possible". This, however, does not exempt them from the responsibility of the e-waste created by their non-repairability.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  Repairability can come at a cost to longevity. Complicates the design and reduces the trustworthiness of used phones.
dathinab 3y ago
Yes it a major part of their marked strategy. In the past iPhones living long enough to allow a second hand marked was a major part of how they where able to capture such a huge market share. Without that they would have struggled to establish themself to the degree they have due to being "just for the wealthy". Also one of their main selling points is the label of a "super well build best of engineering" product. People still associate longevity with that. With the world wide financial situation of most not wealthy people getting worse in recent years and iPhone having gotten even more expensive longevity has become an increasing important reason why non-wealthy people might still buy new iPhones, even if it's second hand still for a high price. BUT the more they make them long lived the more they want repair (or worse upgrade) to not make monetary sense for anyone. At the same time the more they gain from pretending they care about repair, and it's just because of user safety and similar that the price of it is so high and/or it not being possible. I mean a "super well build best of engineering product" should normally be repairable right? Also Apple engines are not their sales team and they care about trying to make an actual "super well build best of engineering product" often looking down intentional brittle products.
newaccount74 3y ago
Until it cracks after an accidental fall. Apple's repair prices are so high, that often it's cheaper to buy the same model used rather than have it repaired. This ensures that people throw phones away rather than repair them, which increases demand for new phones.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  There are lots of third-party screen repair shops. Except it seems like screens are a lot stronger than before, and back when they weren't, everyone I knew just used a cracked screen until the phone was outdated enough to replace.