4 ms·

You're brave to even remotely hint that you're in favor of crypto on HN! >Energy consumption is frankly not a phenomenon I give two shits about, as an environm

You're brave to even remotely hint that you're in favor of crypto on HN! >Energy consumption is frankly not a phenomenon I give two shits about, as an environmentalist. Despite a few people specifically calling this sentence out as 'ridiculous' or whatever, I think this is a completely valid point. If 100% of the energy powering something comes from renewables, who gives a shit?

digging 3y ago
I don't even like it, I kind of wish it hadn't been invented, but rationality is vanishingly rare when it's discussed. And I am certain many will say the same of everything I post.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  You justified it above as being useful for scammers and speculative investors. It's rational to conclude the costs are not worth those supposed benefits.
  - digging 3y ago
    Everything is useful for scammers. I don't know if crypto has significantly increased the rate of non-rich people being scammed.
- amarant 3y ago
  I've just posted a comment criticising one of your other posts about this, but I feel now I need to clarify I don't think your entire post is irrational, just that it contains a few erroneous assumptions, and in at least one place fails to consider what I would deem a noteworthy concern. I agree that most arguments in this area resembles tribal war more than rational debate, much like any discussion involving either trump or musk, where rationality is also thrown out the window in favour of signalling tribal affiliation
amarant 3y ago
I dunno. I see your point, but at the same time there's the opportunity cost to consider. We simply cannot currently generate enough renewable energy to cover all our energy needs, so if you are wasting power that could've been used for something more important, it's a waste regardless of the source of your energy. The more energy society demands, the more likely it becomes that some of it is generated by coal. And does it really matter which electrons are used for what at the end of the day?
sgift 3y ago
Only if 100% of everything is powered by renewables that could be a good argument (but see below), because there's always opportunity costs: The energy production capacity used for crypto cannot be used for anything else, which means something else uses non-renewables now. Maybe an exception could be made if every crypto miner built their own renewable power source which provided all of the energy instead of relying on existing ones, but then the next point still stands: Renewable energy production has externalities, same as everything else. The power production equipment has to be built, which needs materials. It has to be transported, which needs energy. It needs to be maintained and so on. Just saying "well, we can always add a few more renewable power plants, who cares?" would only be valid if we could produce them out of thin air.

digging 3y ago

I don't even like it, I kind of wish it hadn't been invented, but rationality is vanishingly rare when it's discussed. And I am certain many will say the same of everything I post.

Symbiote 3y ago
You justified it above as being useful for scammers and speculative investors. It's rational to conclude the costs are not worth those supposed benefits.
- digging 3y ago
  Everything is useful for scammers. I don't know if crypto has significantly increased the rate of non-rich people being scammed.
amarant 3y ago
I've just posted a comment criticising one of your other posts about this, but I feel now I need to clarify I don't think your entire post is irrational, just that it contains a few erroneous assumptions, and in at least one place fails to consider what I would deem a noteworthy concern. I agree that most arguments in this area resembles tribal war more than rational debate, much like any discussion involving either trump or musk, where rationality is also thrown out the window in favour of signalling tribal affiliation

amarant 3y ago

I dunno. I see your point, but at the same time there's the opportunity cost to consider. We simply cannot currently generate enough renewable energy to cover all our energy needs, so if you are wasting power that could've been used for something more important, it's a waste regardless of the source of your energy. The more energy society demands, the more likely it becomes that some of it is generated by coal. And does it really matter which electrons are used for what at the end of the day?

sgift 3y ago

Only if 100% of everything is powered by renewables that could be a good argument (but see below), because there's always opportunity costs: The energy production capacity used for crypto cannot be used for anything else, which means something else uses non-renewables now. Maybe an exception could be made if every crypto miner built their own renewable power source which provided all of the energy instead of relying on existing ones, but then the next point still stands: Renewable energy production has externalities, same as everything else. The power production equipment has to be built, which needs materials. It has to be transported, which needs energy. It needs to be maintained and so on. Just saying "well, we can always add a few more renewable power plants, who cares?" would only be valid if we could produce them out of thin air.