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Yeah those companies generally use that energy to produce things of value to people

by gipp 3y ago

Hash-Basher 3y ago
A global, decentralized, censorship-resistant monetary asset is not of value to people?
- gipp 3y ago
  Not when it has repeatedly demonstrated over more than a decade that it is completely incapable of supporting a sane, usable model for financial transactions that isn't 99% scams, drugs, and burning giant piles of energy every time someone actually tries to use it as money. Decentralizing the monetary system is potentially a laudable goal. Bitcoin has failed to accomplish it. Failed. Move on.
- malermeister 3y ago
  No. It's not. Censorship-resistant is just another word for fraud- and crime enabling. It's a negative attribute, not a positive one.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    This. Censorship resistance === Cannot undo fraud. A money system that cannot claw back ill-gotten gains is NOT "giving power to the users", but rather giving power to the con-men! Worse, fraud is such a huge return on investment that any system that enables it such as bitcoin does inevitably will have a market driven by fraud, because it easily out-competes the more legitimate business. Bitcoin isn't full of fraud because "it's hard to track", or "there's nothing better to do" or "because it's new/unregulated" Bitcoin is full of fraud and only fraud because a system that doesn't allow you to take back transactions unilaterally makes legitimate business HARDER than fraud, and for less return. The other main "easy fraud" monetary system is gift cards, and they have to expend enormous effort and money on anti-fraud measures and just eating losses so users don't constantly have their money stolen. Crypto doesn't even have that, and in fact, literally cannot have that, because there is no empowered entity to do so.
- mminer237 3y ago
  Idk if this is serious or not, but no, I, nor anyone I have met, has had a need to send money that the court system couldn't reverse.
- williamdclt 3y ago
  Many years into crypocurrency being a thing, we have a non-theoretical answer to this question: apparently not, no. Not for legal purposes at least (people do get value from it as a way to buy drugs or other illegal things/services)
Y_Y 3y ago
The cryptocurrency has value! Maybe we agree that it's shitty, but its value is abundantly clear. It has a price and a nonzero trading volume. An economy that prioritized at human wellbeing or moral value (and had the might to impose it) might be nice, but it's a far cry from the current reality of market forces determining what gets produced.
- Night_Thastus 3y ago
  That 'value' effectively doesn't exist. Basically no-one is going out and buying things with Crypto, minus some illegal purchases. The only reason people are still involved with it at all is as a speculative asset. They aren't using it as a currency - they're hoping it will go up in price and they can pawn it off to the next sucker to do the same. That's not 'value' in my eyes.
- EasyMark 3y ago
  fentanyl also has value, but it also kills (unnecessarily) more 18-45 year olds than anything else (USA). Just because people pay for something doesn't mean it's not something that shouldn't taken off the market for the betterment of society. I consider bitcoin in that same area.

Yeah those companies generally use that energy to produce things of value to people

by gipp 3y ago

Yeah those companies generally use that energy to produce things of value to people

Hash-Basher 3y ago

A global, decentralized, censorship-resistant monetary asset is not of value to people?

gipp 3y ago
Not when it has repeatedly demonstrated over more than a decade that it is completely incapable of supporting a sane, usable model for financial transactions that isn't 99% scams, drugs, and burning giant piles of energy every time someone actually tries to use it as money. Decentralizing the monetary system is potentially a laudable goal. Bitcoin has failed to accomplish it. Failed. Move on.
malermeister 3y ago
No. It's not. Censorship-resistant is just another word for fraud- and crime enabling. It's a negative attribute, not a positive one.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  This. Censorship resistance === Cannot undo fraud. A money system that cannot claw back ill-gotten gains is NOT "giving power to the users", but rather giving power to the con-men! Worse, fraud is such a huge return on investment that any system that enables it such as bitcoin does inevitably will have a market driven by fraud, because it easily out-competes the more legitimate business. Bitcoin isn't full of fraud because "it's hard to track", or "there's nothing better to do" or "because it's new/unregulated" Bitcoin is full of fraud and only fraud because a system that doesn't allow you to take back transactions unilaterally makes legitimate business HARDER than fraud, and for less return. The other main "easy fraud" monetary system is gift cards, and they have to expend enormous effort and money on anti-fraud measures and just eating losses so users don't constantly have their money stolen. Crypto doesn't even have that, and in fact, literally cannot have that, because there is no empowered entity to do so.
mminer237 3y ago
Idk if this is serious or not, but no, I, nor anyone I have met, has had a need to send money that the court system couldn't reverse.
williamdclt 3y ago
Many years into crypocurrency being a thing, we have a non-theoretical answer to this question: apparently not, no. Not for legal purposes at least (people do get value from it as a way to buy drugs or other illegal things/services)

Y_Y 3y ago

The cryptocurrency has value! Maybe we agree that it's shitty, but its value is abundantly clear. It has a price and a nonzero trading volume. An economy that prioritized at human wellbeing or moral value (and had the might to impose it) might be nice, but it's a far cry from the current reality of market forces determining what gets produced.

Night_Thastus 3y ago
That 'value' effectively doesn't exist. Basically no-one is going out and buying things with Crypto, minus some illegal purchases. The only reason people are still involved with it at all is as a speculative asset. They aren't using it as a currency - they're hoping it will go up in price and they can pawn it off to the next sucker to do the same. That's not 'value' in my eyes.
EasyMark 3y ago
fentanyl also has value, but it also kills (unnecessarily) more 18-45 year olds than anything else (USA). Just because people pay for something doesn't mean it's not something that shouldn't taken off the market for the betterment of society. I consider bitcoin in that same area.