6 ms·

Rant warning: I'm really sick of looking at everything through the lens or race or gender. Can we just go back to not seeing those things? I wasn't racist befo

Rant warning: I'm really sick of looking at everything through the lens or race or gender. Can we just go back to not seeing those things? I wasn't racist before, but I am a little now. I think all this focus on race and gender may have the opposite effect that people want.

chowchowchow 3y ago
Wow.
- slashdev 3y ago
  Yeah, I know
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
peterpost2 3y ago
Now imagine how annoyed non-white people with them systematically having problems with joining certain professions. >I think all this focus on race and gender may have the opposite effect that people want. That's a common critique from reactionaries, never seen much proof from it.
- slashdev 3y ago
  > Now imagine how annoyed non-white people with them systematically having problems with joining certain professions. But do they? Adjusting for education and experience? I've yet to see proof of that. > That's a common critique from reactionaries, never seen much proof from it. I can attest to it personally. Not proof, but it makes me wonder.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    > Adjusting for education and experience? That's largely the systemic problem with joining certain professions. Those are most often the qualities the market seeks, but education and experience are biased towards the wealthy. You need resources to attain them. For historical reasons, non-white people as a group don't have the same kind of wealth.
    - slashdev 3y ago
      That's true. Financial inequality is a much bigger problem in the US than discrimination.
      - randomdata 3y ago
        I expect at the end of the day they are one and the same. As in, certain races are treated the way they are because they are poor (generally speaking). It is not like, for example, the white "slack jawed yokels" (rednecks, hicks, white trash, whatever insensitive term you want to call them) are held in high esteem. They too are poor (generally speaking), so they get treated poorly. Let's face it, if the rich list was comprised of mostly black women, we would be bowing down to them and praising their every move. They are marginalized because they, by and large, don't have a good answer to "But what can you do for me?"
        slashdev 3y ago
        There's more truth to that than I'd like to believe.
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  > That's a common critique from reactionaries, never seen much proof from it. You need no proof when you can just dismiss any sort of criticism to the current state of things with a blanket accusation of people being reactionaries.
  - krapp 3y ago
    Someone reacting to the existence of racial politics by becoming more racist out of spite is literally being a reactionary. That's the psychology of comic book villains.
    - slashdev 3y ago
      It's not out of spite. That'd be childish. I'm aware of things I was ignorant of before, like how much crime is commited by people of color. Now I also have to consider if someone earned their position through merit or if it was the result of DEI. Before it was never a question in my mind.
      - krapp 3y ago
        I think it's childish to interpret crime statistics as a valid justification for racism, rather than consider correlating factors such as increased poverty among non-whites, and more aggressive policing and conviction of non-whites, and purposeful misinterpretation of statistics by white supremacists. I think it's childish to assume candidates hired under DEI are less likely to deserve their position than white male candidates. There is no reason to believe that DEI policies require lowering standards other than a belief that white men are categorically more qualified by default. Otherwise, one wouldn't see race, gender and quality as mutually exclusive. I'm not going to get into a long, drawn out argument over this because I suspect it would be a waste of time and it would ruin my day - you came into this thread virtue signaling your racism after all, so it seems you're not in a mood to have your point of view challenged. But I do think you and the normalized cultural bigotry you're expressing are clear examples of why we cannot afford to "just go back to not seeing those things." You can disagree with the incentives of the politics without embracing prejudice against the people those politics are meant to help.
air7 3y ago
The first line of the Nasa's Artrmis Program reads: With Artemis missions, NASA will land the first woman and first person of color on the Moon --- https://www.nasa.gov/specials/artemis/ https://www.nasa.gov/specials/artemis/
- whatshisface 3y ago
  I hate the way NASA phrases it, because it makes them sound like cargo.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    Well, there wouldn't be anything special about it if were a woman and person of color landing on the moon themselves. We already know people can land themselves on the moon. Been there, done that. The white men on the ground at the NASA command centre remotely landing precious cargo on the moon is still somewhat novel, though.
  - peterpost2 3y ago
    Reminds me of the intro to the movie "Iron sky"
s3r3nity 3y ago
Interesting quote from X (Twitter) the other day: "In Terminator 2, how many people remember that the inventor of Skynet, who was a brilliant engineer and also invented many other important technologies, was a black man? If T2 was made in 2024, this would be the centerpiece of the marketing; in 1991 this was just an innocuous fact."
- lagniappe 3y ago
  Rodney King wasn't until 1992, after that, race and its depiction in media changed
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  If you've ever watched the extended edition of T2 (which I can mostly recommend), it actually gives quite a bit more development to Miles Dyson that shows him as a nerdy, focused futurist/engineer, and also a loving family man. It's quite well done though you can see why it would be cut from the theatrical release of a balls-to-the-wall action movie. That said, if you think that the early 90's were some sort of pre race-consciousness society or Miles Dyson just happened to be black as some sort of accident of casting, then you probably just weren't aware of the issue - you weren't "woke" to it, so to speak.
  - wakawaka28 3y ago
    Hollywood up until about 10 years ago used to promote social cohesion and actual tolerance, and fair treatment of all. It would fight stereotypes and raise awareness of important issues affecting minorities, without being overly preachy and antagonistic. What we have now is the opposite. We get preachy and exclusionary politics pushed from the top in almost every facet of media and corporate life. In Hollywood they are writing movies and shows with lame plots, often produced by inept diversity hires, and if you don't like their garbage products then you're called a racist or a homophobe. I for one am not deliberately paying money to be insulted by my entertainment at every turn. Big firms like Disney have killed all the golden geese they had by disrespecting fans and producing racist/sexist propaganda to appease misanthropic investors, and they may be forced to accept that people don't want their bullshit.
I_ 3y ago
Evidently this is an opinion, and the argument - which you are, of course, free to disagree with - is that 'not seeing those things' implies a privilege from which you are benefiting, or an ability to ignore the fact there is injustice even if you aren't benefiting. If you have a bit of damage on your front door, is it better for the person observing you as you walk through the door to point it out (hoping you fix it) or to not point it out (hoping you notice it yourself and fix it, or alternatively that whether you notice or not you choose not to fix it). I do not think it is subject to debate that our front doors have damage, so the question is how to remove that damage in the short/long term.
- slashdev 3y ago
  There's no question there's injustice in the world, and discrimination is alive and well, but I don't think that framing all issues as being the result of discrimination is helpful. They empircaly are not, in the US, discrimination is a minor issue compared to the much larger issues that people face. It's really missing the forest for the trees. Or to use your door analogy, it's pointing out the damage to the door, while ignoring the missing window right next to it.
TheCleric 3y ago
If this pushed you to be a little racist, that's a you problem.
- slashdev 3y ago
  Could be.

chowchowchow 3y ago

Wow.

slashdev 3y ago
Yeah, I know

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

peterpost2 3y ago

Now imagine how annoyed non-white people with them systematically having problems with joining certain professions. >I think all this focus on race and gender may have the opposite effect that people want. That's a common critique from reactionaries, never seen much proof from it.

slashdev 3y ago
> Now imagine how annoyed non-white people with them systematically having problems with joining certain professions. But do they? Adjusting for education and experience? I've yet to see proof of that. > That's a common critique from reactionaries, never seen much proof from it. I can attest to it personally. Not proof, but it makes me wonder.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > Adjusting for education and experience? That's largely the systemic problem with joining certain professions. Those are most often the qualities the market seeks, but education and experience are biased towards the wealthy. You need resources to attain them. For historical reasons, non-white people as a group don't have the same kind of wealth.
  - slashdev 3y ago
    That's true. Financial inequality is a much bigger problem in the US than discrimination.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      I expect at the end of the day they are one and the same. As in, certain races are treated the way they are because they are poor (generally speaking). It is not like, for example, the white "slack jawed yokels" (rednecks, hicks, white trash, whatever insensitive term you want to call them) are held in high esteem. They too are poor (generally speaking), so they get treated poorly. Let's face it, if the rich list was comprised of mostly black women, we would be bowing down to them and praising their every move. They are marginalized because they, by and large, don't have a good answer to "But what can you do for me?"
      - slashdev 3y ago
        There's more truth to that than I'd like to believe.
surgical_fire 3y ago
> That's a common critique from reactionaries, never seen much proof from it. You need no proof when you can just dismiss any sort of criticism to the current state of things with a blanket accusation of people being reactionaries.
- krapp 3y ago
  Someone reacting to the existence of racial politics by becoming more racist out of spite is literally being a reactionary. That's the psychology of comic book villains.
  - slashdev 3y ago
    It's not out of spite. That'd be childish. I'm aware of things I was ignorant of before, like how much crime is commited by people of color. Now I also have to consider if someone earned their position through merit or if it was the result of DEI. Before it was never a question in my mind.
    - krapp 3y ago
      I think it's childish to interpret crime statistics as a valid justification for racism, rather than consider correlating factors such as increased poverty among non-whites, and more aggressive policing and conviction of non-whites, and purposeful misinterpretation of statistics by white supremacists. I think it's childish to assume candidates hired under DEI are less likely to deserve their position than white male candidates. There is no reason to believe that DEI policies require lowering standards other than a belief that white men are categorically more qualified by default. Otherwise, one wouldn't see race, gender and quality as mutually exclusive. I'm not going to get into a long, drawn out argument over this because I suspect it would be a waste of time and it would ruin my day - you came into this thread virtue signaling your racism after all, so it seems you're not in a mood to have your point of view challenged. But I do think you and the normalized cultural bigotry you're expressing are clear examples of why we cannot afford to "just go back to not seeing those things." You can disagree with the incentives of the politics without embracing prejudice against the people those politics are meant to help.

air7 3y ago

The first line of the Nasa's Artrmis Program reads: With Artemis missions, NASA will land the first woman and first person of color on the Moon --- https://www.nasa.gov/specials/artemis/ https://www.nasa.gov/specials/artemis/

whatshisface 3y ago
I hate the way NASA phrases it, because it makes them sound like cargo.
- randomdata 3y ago
  Well, there wouldn't be anything special about it if were a woman and person of color landing on the moon themselves. We already know people can land themselves on the moon. Been there, done that. The white men on the ground at the NASA command centre remotely landing precious cargo on the moon is still somewhat novel, though.
- peterpost2 3y ago
  Reminds me of the intro to the movie "Iron sky"

s3r3nity 3y ago

Interesting quote from X (Twitter) the other day: "In Terminator 2, how many people remember that the inventor of Skynet, who was a brilliant engineer and also invented many other important technologies, was a black man? If T2 was made in 2024, this would be the centerpiece of the marketing; in 1991 this was just an innocuous fact."

lagniappe 3y ago
Rodney King wasn't until 1992, after that, race and its depiction in media changed
hotpotamus 3y ago
If you've ever watched the extended edition of T2 (which I can mostly recommend), it actually gives quite a bit more development to Miles Dyson that shows him as a nerdy, focused futurist/engineer, and also a loving family man. It's quite well done though you can see why it would be cut from the theatrical release of a balls-to-the-wall action movie. That said, if you think that the early 90's were some sort of pre race-consciousness society or Miles Dyson just happened to be black as some sort of accident of casting, then you probably just weren't aware of the issue - you weren't "woke" to it, so to speak.
- wakawaka28 3y ago
  Hollywood up until about 10 years ago used to promote social cohesion and actual tolerance, and fair treatment of all. It would fight stereotypes and raise awareness of important issues affecting minorities, without being overly preachy and antagonistic. What we have now is the opposite. We get preachy and exclusionary politics pushed from the top in almost every facet of media and corporate life. In Hollywood they are writing movies and shows with lame plots, often produced by inept diversity hires, and if you don't like their garbage products then you're called a racist or a homophobe. I for one am not deliberately paying money to be insulted by my entertainment at every turn. Big firms like Disney have killed all the golden geese they had by disrespecting fans and producing racist/sexist propaganda to appease misanthropic investors, and they may be forced to accept that people don't want their bullshit.

I_ 3y ago

Evidently this is an opinion, and the argument - which you are, of course, free to disagree with - is that 'not seeing those things' implies a privilege from which you are benefiting, or an ability to ignore the fact there is injustice even if you aren't benefiting. If you have a bit of damage on your front door, is it better for the person observing you as you walk through the door to point it out (hoping you fix it) or to not point it out (hoping you notice it yourself and fix it, or alternatively that whether you notice or not you choose not to fix it). I do not think it is subject to debate that our front doors have damage, so the question is how to remove that damage in the short/long term.

slashdev 3y ago
There's no question there's injustice in the world, and discrimination is alive and well, but I don't think that framing all issues as being the result of discrimination is helpful. They empircaly are not, in the US, discrimination is a minor issue compared to the much larger issues that people face. It's really missing the forest for the trees. Or to use your door analogy, it's pointing out the damage to the door, while ignoring the missing window right next to it.

TheCleric 3y ago

If this pushed you to be a little racist, that's a you problem.

slashdev 3y ago
Could be.