4 ms·

Can confirm - I'm a huge fan of Greg Egan and specifically Permutation city, and also a huge fan of qntm's stories. Lena is probably the most famous, though not

by edanm 3y ago

Can confirm - I'm a huge fan of Greg Egan and specifically Permutation city, and also a huge fan of qntm's stories. Lena is probably the most famous, though not even the best ("I don't know Timmy" is better IMO). Also, I finally read qntm's Antimemetics division and, while it is a bit lacking in the end, it is one of the most "oh wow this is a crazy good idea" stories I've read in years.

zeekaran 3y ago
Make sure to read Ra as well. One of my favorite webfics. https://qntm.org/ra https://qntm.org/ra
- LeifCarrotson 3y ago
  It's one of my favorite webfics too, so I got a hardcover: https://www.amazon.com/Ra-qntm/dp/B096TRWRWX https://www.amazon.com/Ra-qntm/dp/B096TRWRWX Have this in my personal library as well as a (paperback) of Permutation City. I think it's awesome they're published online but there's something special about having it in print too.
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  I just read the Antimemetics division and qntm's short story collection. I loved the short stories and first ~40-60% of the Antimemetics Division and felt it then got too crazy and abstract. The "magic is real" thing has new worried as I usually avoid fantasy. Do you think I'll still like Ra?
  - AceJohnny2 3y ago
    I read Ra and I loved it, but it's imperfect. It could use an editor. Antimemetics, being SCP-related, comes with a hefty dollop of magical realism. Ra, to me, felt like a rocket ride as new ideas, twists, and exponentially escalating stakes get thrown at you. The pacing is very jerky, and I can very much understand if people just nope halfway through. In particular, the characters... suck (my apologies, Sam)
    - ajmurmann 3y ago
      Characters sucking is a common complaint about hard scifi which I can very much live with and am used to. Thank you!
  - lxgr 3y ago
    It’s as far away from fantasy as magic can probably be. I think you might like it! In some ways, it’s even less fantastical than antimemetics, think magic as a sub-branch of advanced physics and in no way mystical.
- grfhtsdfvv 3y ago
  Thank you for this link, I’m really enjoying it.
- lukifer 3y ago
  While if didn’t hook me as quickly as Antimemetics or Ra, I also thoroughly enjoyed Fine Structure: https://qntm.org/structure https://qntm.org/structure
Vetch 3y ago
I'd also wager that "I don't know Timmy" is more thematically related. I feel most of the discussion in this thread glosses over what is most unsettling about Permutation City. It isn't just a book about what it could be like to be a simulated mind, it's most deeply about exploring the disquieting metaphysical consequences of computable minds. I can't think of a story that has as thoroughly scattered my basic grasp of reality as this one. Only Blindsight even begins to comes close. In "I don't know Timmy" there's a sequence that goes: "Well, we can't exactly turn it off." "Why not?" asked Tim, halfway to the door, then stopped mid-stride and stood still, realising. "Oh." But you can turn it off without consequence and Permutation City explores the disturbing implications of why thoroughly (with a deus ex machina ending to save causal physics, as expected of an Egan story, physics is what has plot armor).
- edanm 3y ago
  > I can't think of a story that has as thoroughly scattered my basic grasp of reality as this one. Only Blindsight even begins to comes close. Absolutely! Very few books have also basically changed my philosophical outlook on something as much as this has (I had the seeds of the idea before the book, but the book really cemented specific concepts around computation and thought/consciousness/identity even mean). Another book that is fairly different, but has had a big impact on some of my views of things, is the Three Body Problem trilogy (specifically the second and third book).
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  > But you can turn it off without consequence and Permutation City explores the disturbing implications of why thoroughly Can you turn it off? The entire universe is 100% deterministic and the "stack" of universes in question is based on the same seed data. So if you decide to turn the n+1 simulation off, the same decision will be made in the n-1 universe. The simulation isn't running on some self-replicating automaton like in Permutation City. Of course the universe being 100% deterministic also poses the question if you can "decide" to do anything, since all decisions are already made.
  - rcxdude 3y ago
Severian 3y ago
I got a copy of the Antimemetics division too after a read through on SCP wiki. Well worth getting a physical copy to support the author. qntm is becoming one of my favorite authors as well.
- edanm 3y ago
  IIRC I bought it on Kindle for similar reasons.
  - wishfish 3y ago
    Just curious if it repeatedly crashed your Kindle? My Kindle (Oasis 2nd gen) was very unhappy with the "redacted" black bars. When a page was full of them, the Kindle just gave up.
    - edanm 3y ago
      Nope, read it on my Kindle Oasis (I believe 2nd gen but not sure), and it was perfectly fine.

by edanm 3y ago

zeekaran 3y ago

Make sure to read Ra as well. One of my favorite webfics. https://qntm.org/ra https://qntm.org/ra

LeifCarrotson 3y ago
It's one of my favorite webfics too, so I got a hardcover: https://www.amazon.com/Ra-qntm/dp/B096TRWRWX https://www.amazon.com/Ra-qntm/dp/B096TRWRWX Have this in my personal library as well as a (paperback) of Permutation City. I think it's awesome they're published online but there's something special about having it in print too.
ajmurmann 3y ago
I just read the Antimemetics division and qntm's short story collection. I loved the short stories and first ~40-60% of the Antimemetics Division and felt it then got too crazy and abstract. The "magic is real" thing has new worried as I usually avoid fantasy. Do you think I'll still like Ra?
- AceJohnny2 3y ago
  I read Ra and I loved it, but it's imperfect. It could use an editor. Antimemetics, being SCP-related, comes with a hefty dollop of magical realism. Ra, to me, felt like a rocket ride as new ideas, twists, and exponentially escalating stakes get thrown at you. The pacing is very jerky, and I can very much understand if people just nope halfway through. In particular, the characters... suck (my apologies, Sam)
  - ajmurmann 3y ago
    Characters sucking is a common complaint about hard scifi which I can very much live with and am used to. Thank you!
- lxgr 3y ago
  It’s as far away from fantasy as magic can probably be. I think you might like it! In some ways, it’s even less fantastical than antimemetics, think magic as a sub-branch of advanced physics and in no way mystical.
grfhtsdfvv 3y ago
Thank you for this link, I’m really enjoying it.
lukifer 3y ago
While if didn’t hook me as quickly as Antimemetics or Ra, I also thoroughly enjoyed Fine Structure: https://qntm.org/structure https://qntm.org/structure

Vetch 3y ago

I'd also wager that "I don't know Timmy" is more thematically related. I feel most of the discussion in this thread glosses over what is most unsettling about Permutation City. It isn't just a book about what it could be like to be a simulated mind, it's most deeply about exploring the disquieting metaphysical consequences of computable minds. I can't think of a story that has as thoroughly scattered my basic grasp of reality as this one. Only Blindsight even begins to comes close. In "I don't know Timmy" there's a sequence that goes: "Well, we can't exactly turn it off." "Why not?" asked Tim, halfway to the door, then stopped mid-stride and stood still, realising. "Oh." But you can turn it off without consequence and Permutation City explores the disturbing implications of why thoroughly (with a deus ex machina ending to save causal physics, as expected of an Egan story, physics is what has plot armor).

edanm 3y ago
> I can't think of a story that has as thoroughly scattered my basic grasp of reality as this one. Only Blindsight even begins to comes close. Absolutely! Very few books have also basically changed my philosophical outlook on something as much as this has (I had the seeds of the idea before the book, but the book really cemented specific concepts around computation and thought/consciousness/identity even mean). Another book that is fairly different, but has had a big impact on some of my views of things, is the Three Body Problem trilogy (specifically the second and third book).
ajmurmann 3y ago
> But you can turn it off without consequence and Permutation City explores the disturbing implications of why thoroughly Can you turn it off? The entire universe is 100% deterministic and the "stack" of universes in question is based on the same seed data. So if you decide to turn the n+1 simulation off, the same decision will be made in the n-1 universe. The simulation isn't running on some self-replicating automaton like in Permutation City. Of course the universe being 100% deterministic also poses the question if you can "decide" to do anything, since all decisions are already made.
- rcxdude 3y ago

Severian 3y ago

I got a copy of the Antimemetics division too after a read through on SCP wiki. Well worth getting a physical copy to support the author. qntm is becoming one of my favorite authors as well.

edanm 3y ago
IIRC I bought it on Kindle for similar reasons.
- wishfish 3y ago
  Just curious if it repeatedly crashed your Kindle? My Kindle (Oasis 2nd gen) was very unhappy with the "redacted" black bars. When a page was full of them, the Kindle just gave up.
  - edanm 3y ago
    Nope, read it on my Kindle Oasis (I believe 2nd gen but not sure), and it was perfectly fine.