4 ms·

Atkinson's very first argument is just citing a Volvo report which has basic math errors in it.[0] Not a great start folks. He then says (no citation) that EV

Atkinson's very first argument is just citing a Volvo report which has basic math errors in it.[0] Not a great start folks. He then says (no citation) that EV batteries "last only upward of" 10 years, the strange phrasing because British tabloids are shy about actually telling a provable lie. Atkinson knows EV batteries last longer than 10 years, but he wants to make it sound like they don't. He trots out the usual parade of distractions: solid state batteries, hydrogen, and (least practical of all) e-fuel. The obvious implication is that we shouldn't invest in workable EVs now, instead better to wait for some (supposedly) perfect technology someday in the future. Classic 'kick the can down the road.' Using older cars longer sounds good, but eventually it's like an old fridge: more expensive to operate (and dirtier) than replacing it with a newer model. Atkinson never mentions the fraction of pollution that comes from operation vs manufacturing, conveniently pretending the manufacturing is all that matters. He also gives an extremely silly argument that confuses using a car for three years and "selling it on" (ie reselling it used) with junking a car after three years. All in all, I expected more from a nation-duping article. [0] https://twitter.com/AukeHoekstra/status/1332464525602410498 https://twitter.com/AukeHoekstra/status/1332464525602410498

tivert 3y ago
> He then says (no citation) that EV batteries "last only upward of" 10 years, the strange phrasing because British tabloids are shy about actually telling provable lies. Atkinson knows EV batteries last longer than 10 years, but he wants to make it sound like they don't. What's EV batteries secret sauce then? Extensive over-provisioning? I'm under the impression that pretty much all battery cells used in consumer stuff will wear out after a decade or less of use, and will be much diminished from rated capacity, even if they still technically function. And I'd imagine EV batteries are almost always stored rougher environment, not in a climate-controlled room like most people's stuff.
- schiffern 3y ago
  In reality it's the opposite. Laptop and phone batteries have limited temperature control, maybe a fan. EV batteries have active thermal control loops that heat and cool the whole battery evenly. The 'exception that proves the rule' is the 1st gen Leaf, which had passive thermal control and poor longevity. EV batteries are slightly over-provisioned (like most devices), but they also provide more tools to manage lifespan. I'm continually shocked how my Apple devices have no ability to limit charging to 80 or 90%. They're just constantly frying the battery.
  - init2null 3y ago
    Macs have automatic charge caps for frequent AC use, and iPhones have delayed full charging, so there is clearly some longevity engineering. A strict cap would be an improvement, but isn't completely necessary.
- jjgreen 3y ago
  I think the strange phrasing is explained in the colophon: This article was amended on 5 June 2023 to describe lithium-ion batteries as lasting “upwards of 10 years”, rather than “about 10 years”
  - schiffern 3y ago
    Yes I saw that, and it factored in. The "about 10 years" claim was evidently too potentially libelous for comfort, so instead we got that grammatical monstrosity.

tivert 3y ago

> He then says (no citation) that EV batteries "last only upward of" 10 years, the strange phrasing because British tabloids are shy about actually telling provable lies. Atkinson knows EV batteries last longer than 10 years, but he wants to make it sound like they don't. What's EV batteries secret sauce then? Extensive over-provisioning? I'm under the impression that pretty much all battery cells used in consumer stuff will wear out after a decade or less of use, and will be much diminished from rated capacity, even if they still technically function. And I'd imagine EV batteries are almost always stored rougher environment, not in a climate-controlled room like most people's stuff.

schiffern 3y ago
In reality it's the opposite. Laptop and phone batteries have limited temperature control, maybe a fan. EV batteries have active thermal control loops that heat and cool the whole battery evenly. The 'exception that proves the rule' is the 1st gen Leaf, which had passive thermal control and poor longevity. EV batteries are slightly over-provisioned (like most devices), but they also provide more tools to manage lifespan. I'm continually shocked how my Apple devices have no ability to limit charging to 80 or 90%. They're just constantly frying the battery.
- init2null 3y ago
  Macs have automatic charge caps for frequent AC use, and iPhones have delayed full charging, so there is clearly some longevity engineering. A strict cap would be an improvement, but isn't completely necessary.
jjgreen 3y ago
I think the strange phrasing is explained in the colophon: This article was amended on 5 June 2023 to describe lithium-ion batteries as lasting “upwards of 10 years”, rather than “about 10 years”
- schiffern 3y ago
  Yes I saw that, and it factored in. The "about 10 years" claim was evidently too potentially libelous for comfort, so instead we got that grammatical monstrosity.