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'Mr Bean' actor Rowan Atkinson blamed for slumping electric car sale in the UK

26 points by teleforce 3y ago

h2odragon 3y ago
The 5 year plan didn't fail because of flaws; it was sabotaged by wreckers and reactionaries and kulaks! And Mr Bean.
- deleted 3y ago
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- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  We shall pour our green lithium into gas guzzlers throats to make them shut up about low range and high price!
jjgreen 3y ago
Atkinson's article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electric-vehicles-early-adopter-petrol-car-ev-environment-rowan-atkinson https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electr...
- gray_-_wolf 3y ago
  That seems like fairly sober look at the issue. Interesting read.
- hasty_pudding 3y ago
  Great article! Had no idea he has a Master in electrical engineering!
  - Alifatisk 3y ago
    If you didn’t mention this, I don’t think I would ever find out, that’s so cool!
  - defrost 3y ago
    and plays a pretty mean church organ to boot. I met him and Ben Elton when they were on some kind of Brits abroad | wife hunting trip in the antipodes - Elton found himself a Jam Tart [1], Atkinson was chasing bigger game whom he once shared an organ with [2] and lucked out. Many conversations about dinner tables were had and at least one book resulted [3] But this was all very much in the early 1980s pre mega stardom days - R.A was introduced to me as an engineer rather than as a comedian. [1] https://freotopia.org/music/jamtarts/index.html https://freotopia.org/music/jamtarts/index.html [2] https://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/en/persons/robyn-owens https://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/en/persons/robyn-owen... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_(novel)
  - isthatafact 3y ago
    It mostly reads like a really bad article, disinformation actually, to me. The complaints about the greenhouse emissions during production of an electric car without considering the emission over its lifespan are less than helpful. Then the author claims that cars are "fast fashion" items and seems to not understand the difference between leasing (renting) and owning. Those 3 year old cars are not sent to the junkyard after the lease expires, which the author sort of acknowledges while still insisting that passing your usable car to someone else in order to drive a new one is a terrible thing. Then the implicit suggestion that we should keep old internal combustion cars around in hopes that someone might someday develop a practical synthetic fuel sometime in the future is just weird, even if it might have some validity simply due to the environmental cost of building a new car, but is really just unsupported opinion. It finally closes by recommending that people should simply continue driving their dirty old smoker cars unless "they do a lot of city centre motoring", but does not even mention public transit or bicycles.
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- pbronez 3y ago
  It’s a thoughtful, nuanced take grounded in some reasonable (though imperfect) engineering and economics. He correctly points out that battery manufacturing isn’t an old growth forest and that longer lifecycles for manufactured goods are better for the environment. That’s more complicated than “buy an electric car to save the planet!” but it’s less wrong. His conclusion, in his words: “Increasingly, I’m feeling that our honeymoon with electric cars is coming to an end, and that’s no bad thing: we’re realising that a wider range of options need to be explored if we’re going to properly address the very serious environmental problems that our use of the motor car has created. We should keep developing hydrogen, as well as synthetic fuels to save the scrapping of older cars which still have so much to give, while simultaneously promoting a quite different business model for the car industry, in which we keep our new vehicles for longer, acknowledging their amazing but overlooked longevity.”
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- schiffern 3y ago
  Atkinson's very first argument is just citing a Volvo report which has basic math errors in it.[0] Not a great start folks. He then says (no citation) that EV batteries "last only upward of" 10 years, the strange phrasing because British tabloids are shy about actually telling a provable lie. Atkinson knows EV batteries last longer than 10 years, but he wants to make it sound like they don't. He trots out the usual parade of distractions: solid state batteries, hydrogen, and (least practical of all) e-fuel. The obvious implication is that we shouldn't invest in workable EVs now, instead better to wait for some (supposedly) perfect technology someday in the future. Classic 'kick the can down the road.' Using older cars longer sounds good, but eventually it's like an old fridge: more expensive to operate (and dirtier) than replacing it with a newer model. Atkinson never mentions the fraction of pollution that comes from operation vs manufacturing, conveniently pretending the manufacturing is all that matters. He also gives an extremely silly argument that confuses using a car for three years and "selling it on" (ie reselling it used) with junking a car after three years. All in all, I expected more from a nation-duping article. [0] https://twitter.com/AukeHoekstra/status/1332464525602410498 https://twitter.com/AukeHoekstra/status/1332464525602410498
  - tivert 3y ago
    > He then says (no citation) that EV batteries "last only upward of" 10 years, the strange phrasing because British tabloids are shy about actually telling provable lies. Atkinson knows EV batteries last longer than 10 years, but he wants to make it sound like they don't. What's EV batteries secret sauce then? Extensive over-provisioning? I'm under the impression that pretty much all battery cells used in consumer stuff will wear out after a decade or less of use, and will be much diminished from rated capacity, even if they still technically function. And I'd imagine EV batteries are almost always stored rougher environment, not in a climate-controlled room like most people's stuff.
    - schiffern 3y ago
      In reality it's the opposite. Laptop and phone batteries have limited temperature control, maybe a fan. EV batteries have active thermal control loops that heat and cool the whole battery evenly. The 'exception that proves the rule' is the 1st gen Leaf, which had passive thermal control and poor longevity. EV batteries are slightly over-provisioned (like most devices), but they also provide more tools to manage lifespan. I'm continually shocked how my Apple devices have no ability to limit charging to 80 or 90%. They're just constantly frying the battery.
- drewcoo 3y ago
  And a debunking by the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/08/fact-check-why-rowan-atkinson-is-wrong-about-electric-vehicles https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/08/fact-che...
trollied 3y ago
I have a cunning plan...
jgrahamc 3y ago
He didn't say anything that many, many people weren't already thinking. I too love electric vehicles but they just aren't there yet. I'm very happy driving a hybrid. One day the battery technology, range, and charging infrastructure and speed will be there but it simply is not today.
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  For those lucky enough to own homes, or have some other living situation in which they are able to charge their cars overnight, plug-in hybrids certainly seem like the best answer for many/most people. Yes, they still have batteries, but much smaller than those of full electrics. Yes, they still burn petroleum, but for many people the majority of their driving will fall into the all-electric range.
  - jgrahamc 3y ago
    And that is me. The car gets driven around Lisbon in electric power almost 100% of the time. When leaving Lisbon for long distances petrol is needed.
- nunez 3y ago
  i love our model 3 but if you don't have a Tesla, you're exactly correct. charging outside of the supercharger network is a nightmare.
  - jgrahamc 3y ago
    I have no desire to buy a Tesla. Every single one I have been in has been a disappointment. They are ugly, have no style or finesse, and are poorly made.
jokethrowaway 3y ago
We need better batteries before EV are viable Mining Lithium is expensive, polluting and batteries don't last enough. I refuse to believe governments and scientists of the world are so clueless to not understand this, so I assume they just want everyone to buy a lot of EV and throw them away in 10 years for the next green technology, whether that's better, green batteries or hydrogen. The sad thing is that converting a petrol car to hydrogen is pretty doable so we could reuse our existing cars and save tons of money if hydrogen were the focus now. But of course, car makers will lose billions as most people could just run with their existing cars instead of buying a new car. I'm sure they've been lobbying the EU heavily.
- taskforcegemini 3y ago
  >The sad thing is that converting a petrol car to hydrogen is pretty doable so we could reuse our existing cars and save tons of money if hydrogen were the focus now. how so? aren't current hydrogen cars basically electric cars with hydrogen merely powering its generator?
  - drtgh 3y ago
    He means to adapt for hydrogen gas combustion. Without the fuel cells used by the hydrogen electrical ones. Although we are talking of different pressures, at first sight it sounds feasible, due to adapt motors for using butane gas combustion has been done for decades, they use the luggage space for to place the tanks. So he points it would have been more practical to wait for the needed tech in electric batteries and motors, using those hydrogen conversions by the moment as a transition (hydrogen would be obtained mainly from oil extraction, if I remember well, as the electrolysis tech is not there yet). I'm not sure if the recharge points would accept to cross through two transitions in such short range of time (petrol towards hydrogen towards electrical), but more important is that I don't know where all the electrical energy that is going to be needed is going to come from.
deadbabe 3y ago
Does anyone here want to like electric cars, but simply can’t?
resolutebat 3y ago
I'm seeing all these articles about "slumping" EV sales, when the actual data is saying that growth is slowing (second derivative), not that sales are slowing. Worldwide sales are still increasing 30% year on year!
retrac98 3y ago
The UK is too poor for mass EV adoption. We have an average annual household income of something like £30k, and most electric cars (that you’d actually want) cost much more than that right now.
- aluket 3y ago
  The UK is #6 globally in terms of GDP, and at least where I live in the south east there are Teslas everywhere I look. I think this says more about the problem with averages.
  - retrac98 3y ago
    GDP isn’t a great measure here. For example, while it’s #6 by GDP it’s #21 by GDP per capita. The wealth is also very unevenly distributed, 1/7 are skipping meals due to poverty: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cost-of-living-uk-people-skipping-meals-b2295440.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cost-of-livi...
  - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
    That's London and wider area, rest of UK is on same level like Eastern Europe. Here is the map based on Eurostat data. Notice that richest area and almost all poorest areas are in UK https://vividmaps.com/the-top-ten-richest-and-poorest-areas/ https://vividmaps.com/the-top-ten-richest-and-poorest-areas/
gred 3y ago
Meh. The House of Lords Environment and Climate Change Committee report itself doesn't mention him or the article: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5804/ldselect/ldenvcl/51/5102.htm https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5804/ldselect/ldenvc... Rather, he's mentioned in referenced material provided by Green Alliance, an eco think tank: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/124805/html/ https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/124805/html...
wccrawford 3y ago
I would love to have an electric car, and my next one will most likely be electric. But I notice that the article claims his article was "roundly debunked", but fails to actually link to any of that debunking. Here's an article that does that. It's on the same site as Atkinson's article, even. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/08/fact-check-why-rowan-atkinson-is-wrong-about-electric-vehicles https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/08/fact-che... I feel that Rowan may be in the wrong about the facts in the end, but I'm not surprised that he feels "duped" since so much of marketing is about hiding the things they don't want you to know, and he found all that stuff out. And it was a lot. In the end, though, I do think they're already a net positive and that's just getting better with time and effort.
- sspiff 3y ago
  I too would love an EV, but the problems are many: - My current car cost €13k, and is a station wagon that comfortably fits 5 and their luggage for any occasion. It's luxurious and quite fast for what it is. The cheapest EV that matches this in my market is around €60k. - Modern cars, and EVs especially, are usability nightmares. No more buttons, everything hidden in apps and behind touchscreens. - Modern cars, and EVs especially, are privacy nightmares. They are always on computers, constantly reporting back to the mothership. Mozilla did a deep dive on their terms and conditions, and all of them are horrible. Multiple brands admit to collecting and sharing details about sexual activity, genetic and health information in these legal documents. - Long term ownership and servicing is a hard proposition currently. Batteries need replacing after a number of years (let's say 10 years, some will last a little longer, but many will lose significant range before that point), and the cost of replacement currently exceeds the value of the vehicle (sometimes even exceeding the price of a new vehicle). This is not an accident. Tesla introduced the "structural battery pack" with the Model Y, and others are sure to follow their model. Ostensibly to increase efficiency and lower the astronomical weight of EVs, in reality this is a thinly veiled attempt at introducing more planned obsolescence. - Charging infrastructure is woefully underdimensioned in many locations, even for the current adoption rate. I'm honestly waiting for the market and charging networks to mature, so I can just pay a company to convert an older vehicle to EV and sidestep all the garbage the car industry is trying to push on us with the current crop of EVs.
dakial1 3y ago
I've driven electric cars and really think they are superior to petrol ones in almost every way. The thing that is not there yet is the whole ecosystem around them. From the Closed loop Supply Chain to get the batteries made and recycled to the recharging points. Having said that I don't think any of those will evolve if we don't invest on electric cars, because demand drives the supply. So it isn't "f*ck EVs, I'll keep my petrol car" and more like, we have these gaps that we need to think how to solve. It is not an unsolvable problem, there are just deep pocketed players fighting for us to solve them reeeeal slow...
ourmandave 3y ago
Checks out. Personally, all my major life decisions are driven by asking, "What would Mr. Bean do?"
- colpabar 3y ago
  What really gets me is that they still quote twitter users in articles like this. > Uses on X were quick to support Atkinson with one stating: “If Rowan Atkinson is responsible then give him a knighthood.” > Another users says: “Rowan Atkinson with a degree and masters in Engineering. Knows more than those pushing electric cars.” You can find people saying anything about anything on twitter. It is completely meaningless.
Nexialist 3y ago
The crux of Atkinson's argument seems to be that the upfront emissions from the manufacturing process, and shorter lifespan of electric vehicles, does not make up for the reduction in tailpipe emissions. Is this true? I know that the Tesla Impact report [0] refutes this, stating > "While EVs today still emit more greenhouse gases during the manufacturing phase, including emissions from the supply chain, it takes less than two years' worth of driving before the total emissions from an EV fall below that of a comparable ICE vehicle." but it's hardly an unbiased source. [0] https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2022-tesla-impact-report-highlights.pdf https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2022-tesla-impact-report-hig... EDIT: Since posting, found some of the sources that were linked by the guardian follow-up refuting Atkinson's claim: - The IPCC Mitigation of Climate Change report [1] - The ECIU "Energy price shock and the transition to electric vehicles" Report [2] - Ricardo Energy & Environment report to the UK Dept of Transport [3] - Carbonbrief factcheck article [4] [1] https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg3/ https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg3/ [2] https://eciu.net/analysis/reports/2022/global-momentum-the-energy-price-shock-and-the-transition-to-electric-vehicles https://eciu.net/analysis/reports/2022/global-momentum-the-e... [3] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1062603/lifecycle-analysis-of-UK-road-vehicles.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [4] https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-...
- jahnu 3y ago
  Hanna Richie is a reliable source, imo. https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/ev-fossil-cars-climate https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/ev-fossil-cars-cli...
TacticalCoder 3y ago
Rowan Atkinson is a notorious petrolhead: all of us petrolheads are in awe when we see his car collection. My point is: petrolheads are probably harder to convince when it comes to switching to EVs.
bell-cot 3y ago
Ah... Interesting theory. But if this actor bloke can tank car sales in the whole UK, with just an article in some newspaper...shouldn't News Corp be fawning over and toadying up to him? After all, he might write another article, telling all their advertisers to take their marketing budgets elsewhere.
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
The Rowan Atkinson article in question and some discussion here at the time 8 months ago: I love electric vehicles – and was early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36180186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36180186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36174660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36174660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36193984 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36193984
Overtonwindow 3y ago
Full disclosure, I have a Tesla and I love it. I have access to superchargers and home charging, and it has not really increased my utility bill. We should all want emissions free driving, I don’t think that is the issue, but to get there the quality of the vehicle, charging networks, and driving behavior will have to change. I am ok with having both ICE and EVs, let people choose, but I also believe in the long run emissions free will win out. Today it’s EVs but who knows where we might go.
jitl 3y ago
Haha it’s like the Apple Vision Pro - seems like the time to buy one is in 2-3 years, where in North America we’ll have non-Tesla cars with Tesla/NACS plugs, a few more charging stations, and manufacturers will have brought back more buttons and worked out some other issues with gen1 models. And hopefully GE and Hyundai will figure out wireless CarPlay is a good idea, and the new Toyota CEO will have them making true Toyota-quality BEV platform.
cheradenine_uk 3y ago
Decline? What decline? https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/ https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/ January data: BEV share +20% YoY

26 points by teleforce 3y ago

h2odragon 3y ago

The 5 year plan didn't fail because of flaws; it was sabotaged by wreckers and reactionaries and kulaks! And Mr Bean.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
We shall pour our green lithium into gas guzzlers throats to make them shut up about low range and high price!

jjgreen 3y ago

Atkinson's article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electric-vehicles-early-adopter-petrol-car-ev-environment-rowan-atkinson https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electr...

gray_-_wolf 3y ago
That seems like fairly sober look at the issue. Interesting read.
hasty_pudding 3y ago
Great article! Had no idea he has a Master in electrical engineering!
- Alifatisk 3y ago
  If you didn’t mention this, I don’t think I would ever find out, that’s so cool!
- defrost 3y ago
  and plays a pretty mean church organ to boot. I met him and Ben Elton when they were on some kind of Brits abroad | wife hunting trip in the antipodes - Elton found himself a Jam Tart [1], Atkinson was chasing bigger game whom he once shared an organ with [2] and lucked out. Many conversations about dinner tables were had and at least one book resulted [3] But this was all very much in the early 1980s pre mega stardom days - R.A was introduced to me as an engineer rather than as a comedian. [1] https://freotopia.org/music/jamtarts/index.html https://freotopia.org/music/jamtarts/index.html [2] https://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/en/persons/robyn-owens https://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/en/persons/robyn-owen... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_(novel)
- isthatafact 3y ago
  It mostly reads like a really bad article, disinformation actually, to me. The complaints about the greenhouse emissions during production of an electric car without considering the emission over its lifespan are less than helpful. Then the author claims that cars are "fast fashion" items and seems to not understand the difference between leasing (renting) and owning. Those 3 year old cars are not sent to the junkyard after the lease expires, which the author sort of acknowledges while still insisting that passing your usable car to someone else in order to drive a new one is a terrible thing. Then the implicit suggestion that we should keep old internal combustion cars around in hopes that someone might someday develop a practical synthetic fuel sometime in the future is just weird, even if it might have some validity simply due to the environmental cost of building a new car, but is really just unsupported opinion. It finally closes by recommending that people should simply continue driving their dirty old smoker cars unless "they do a lot of city centre motoring", but does not even mention public transit or bicycles.
- deleted 3y ago
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pbronez 3y ago
It’s a thoughtful, nuanced take grounded in some reasonable (though imperfect) engineering and economics. He correctly points out that battery manufacturing isn’t an old growth forest and that longer lifecycles for manufactured goods are better for the environment. That’s more complicated than “buy an electric car to save the planet!” but it’s less wrong. His conclusion, in his words: “Increasingly, I’m feeling that our honeymoon with electric cars is coming to an end, and that’s no bad thing: we’re realising that a wider range of options need to be explored if we’re going to properly address the very serious environmental problems that our use of the motor car has created. We should keep developing hydrogen, as well as synthetic fuels to save the scrapping of older cars which still have so much to give, while simultaneously promoting a quite different business model for the car industry, in which we keep our new vehicles for longer, acknowledging their amazing but overlooked longevity.”
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schiffern 3y ago
Atkinson's very first argument is just citing a Volvo report which has basic math errors in it.[0] Not a great start folks. He then says (no citation) that EV batteries "last only upward of" 10 years, the strange phrasing because British tabloids are shy about actually telling a provable lie. Atkinson knows EV batteries last longer than 10 years, but he wants to make it sound like they don't. He trots out the usual parade of distractions: solid state batteries, hydrogen, and (least practical of all) e-fuel. The obvious implication is that we shouldn't invest in workable EVs now, instead better to wait for some (supposedly) perfect technology someday in the future. Classic 'kick the can down the road.' Using older cars longer sounds good, but eventually it's like an old fridge: more expensive to operate (and dirtier) than replacing it with a newer model. Atkinson never mentions the fraction of pollution that comes from operation vs manufacturing, conveniently pretending the manufacturing is all that matters. He also gives an extremely silly argument that confuses using a car for three years and "selling it on" (ie reselling it used) with junking a car after three years. All in all, I expected more from a nation-duping article. [0] https://twitter.com/AukeHoekstra/status/1332464525602410498 https://twitter.com/AukeHoekstra/status/1332464525602410498
- tivert 3y ago
  > He then says (no citation) that EV batteries "last only upward of" 10 years, the strange phrasing because British tabloids are shy about actually telling provable lies. Atkinson knows EV batteries last longer than 10 years, but he wants to make it sound like they don't. What's EV batteries secret sauce then? Extensive over-provisioning? I'm under the impression that pretty much all battery cells used in consumer stuff will wear out after a decade or less of use, and will be much diminished from rated capacity, even if they still technically function. And I'd imagine EV batteries are almost always stored rougher environment, not in a climate-controlled room like most people's stuff.
  - schiffern 3y ago
    In reality it's the opposite. Laptop and phone batteries have limited temperature control, maybe a fan. EV batteries have active thermal control loops that heat and cool the whole battery evenly. The 'exception that proves the rule' is the 1st gen Leaf, which had passive thermal control and poor longevity. EV batteries are slightly over-provisioned (like most devices), but they also provide more tools to manage lifespan. I'm continually shocked how my Apple devices have no ability to limit charging to 80 or 90%. They're just constantly frying the battery.
drewcoo 3y ago
And a debunking by the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/08/fact-check-why-rowan-atkinson-is-wrong-about-electric-vehicles https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/08/fact-che...

trollied 3y ago

I have a cunning plan...

jgrahamc 3y ago

He didn't say anything that many, many people weren't already thinking. I too love electric vehicles but they just aren't there yet. I'm very happy driving a hybrid. One day the battery technology, range, and charging infrastructure and speed will be there but it simply is not today.

JohnBooty 3y ago
For those lucky enough to own homes, or have some other living situation in which they are able to charge their cars overnight, plug-in hybrids certainly seem like the best answer for many/most people. Yes, they still have batteries, but much smaller than those of full electrics. Yes, they still burn petroleum, but for many people the majority of their driving will fall into the all-electric range.
- jgrahamc 3y ago
  And that is me. The car gets driven around Lisbon in electric power almost 100% of the time. When leaving Lisbon for long distances petrol is needed.
nunez 3y ago
i love our model 3 but if you don't have a Tesla, you're exactly correct. charging outside of the supercharger network is a nightmare.
- jgrahamc 3y ago
  I have no desire to buy a Tesla. Every single one I have been in has been a disappointment. They are ugly, have no style or finesse, and are poorly made.

jokethrowaway 3y ago

We need better batteries before EV are viable Mining Lithium is expensive, polluting and batteries don't last enough. I refuse to believe governments and scientists of the world are so clueless to not understand this, so I assume they just want everyone to buy a lot of EV and throw them away in 10 years for the next green technology, whether that's better, green batteries or hydrogen. The sad thing is that converting a petrol car to hydrogen is pretty doable so we could reuse our existing cars and save tons of money if hydrogen were the focus now. But of course, car makers will lose billions as most people could just run with their existing cars instead of buying a new car. I'm sure they've been lobbying the EU heavily.

taskforcegemini 3y ago
>The sad thing is that converting a petrol car to hydrogen is pretty doable so we could reuse our existing cars and save tons of money if hydrogen were the focus now. how so? aren't current hydrogen cars basically electric cars with hydrogen merely powering its generator?
- drtgh 3y ago
  He means to adapt for hydrogen gas combustion. Without the fuel cells used by the hydrogen electrical ones. Although we are talking of different pressures, at first sight it sounds feasible, due to adapt motors for using butane gas combustion has been done for decades, they use the luggage space for to place the tanks. So he points it would have been more practical to wait for the needed tech in electric batteries and motors, using those hydrogen conversions by the moment as a transition (hydrogen would be obtained mainly from oil extraction, if I remember well, as the electrolysis tech is not there yet). I'm not sure if the recharge points would accept to cross through two transitions in such short range of time (petrol towards hydrogen towards electrical), but more important is that I don't know where all the electrical energy that is going to be needed is going to come from.

deadbabe 3y ago

Does anyone here want to like electric cars, but simply can’t?

resolutebat 3y ago

I'm seeing all these articles about "slumping" EV sales, when the actual data is saying that growth is slowing (second derivative), not that sales are slowing. Worldwide sales are still increasing 30% year on year!

retrac98 3y ago

The UK is too poor for mass EV adoption. We have an average annual household income of something like £30k, and most electric cars (that you’d actually want) cost much more than that right now.

aluket 3y ago
The UK is #6 globally in terms of GDP, and at least where I live in the south east there are Teslas everywhere I look. I think this says more about the problem with averages.
- retrac98 3y ago
  GDP isn’t a great measure here. For example, while it’s #6 by GDP it’s #21 by GDP per capita. The wealth is also very unevenly distributed, 1/7 are skipping meals due to poverty: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cost-of-living-uk-people-skipping-meals-b2295440.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cost-of-livi...
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  That's London and wider area, rest of UK is on same level like Eastern Europe. Here is the map based on Eurostat data. Notice that richest area and almost all poorest areas are in UK https://vividmaps.com/the-top-ten-richest-and-poorest-areas/ https://vividmaps.com/the-top-ten-richest-and-poorest-areas/

gred 3y ago

Meh. The House of Lords Environment and Climate Change Committee report itself doesn't mention him or the article: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5804/ldselect/ldenvcl/51/5102.htm https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5804/ldselect/ldenvc... Rather, he's mentioned in referenced material provided by Green Alliance, an eco think tank: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/124805/html/ https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/124805/html...

wccrawford 3y ago

I would love to have an electric car, and my next one will most likely be electric. But I notice that the article claims his article was "roundly debunked", but fails to actually link to any of that debunking. Here's an article that does that. It's on the same site as Atkinson's article, even. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/08/fact-check-why-rowan-atkinson-is-wrong-about-electric-vehicles https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/08/fact-che... I feel that Rowan may be in the wrong about the facts in the end, but I'm not surprised that he feels "duped" since so much of marketing is about hiding the things they don't want you to know, and he found all that stuff out. And it was a lot. In the end, though, I do think they're already a net positive and that's just getting better with time and effort.

sspiff 3y ago
I too would love an EV, but the problems are many: - My current car cost €13k, and is a station wagon that comfortably fits 5 and their luggage for any occasion. It's luxurious and quite fast for what it is. The cheapest EV that matches this in my market is around €60k. - Modern cars, and EVs especially, are usability nightmares. No more buttons, everything hidden in apps and behind touchscreens. - Modern cars, and EVs especially, are privacy nightmares. They are always on computers, constantly reporting back to the mothership. Mozilla did a deep dive on their terms and conditions, and all of them are horrible. Multiple brands admit to collecting and sharing details about sexual activity, genetic and health information in these legal documents. - Long term ownership and servicing is a hard proposition currently. Batteries need replacing after a number of years (let's say 10 years, some will last a little longer, but many will lose significant range before that point), and the cost of replacement currently exceeds the value of the vehicle (sometimes even exceeding the price of a new vehicle). This is not an accident. Tesla introduced the "structural battery pack" with the Model Y, and others are sure to follow their model. Ostensibly to increase efficiency and lower the astronomical weight of EVs, in reality this is a thinly veiled attempt at introducing more planned obsolescence. - Charging infrastructure is woefully underdimensioned in many locations, even for the current adoption rate. I'm honestly waiting for the market and charging networks to mature, so I can just pay a company to convert an older vehicle to EV and sidestep all the garbage the car industry is trying to push on us with the current crop of EVs.

dakial1 3y ago

I've driven electric cars and really think they are superior to petrol ones in almost every way. The thing that is not there yet is the whole ecosystem around them. From the Closed loop Supply Chain to get the batteries made and recycled to the recharging points. Having said that I don't think any of those will evolve if we don't invest on electric cars, because demand drives the supply. So it isn't "f*ck EVs, I'll keep my petrol car" and more like, we have these gaps that we need to think how to solve. It is not an unsolvable problem, there are just deep pocketed players fighting for us to solve them reeeeal slow...

ourmandave 3y ago

Checks out. Personally, all my major life decisions are driven by asking, "What would Mr. Bean do?"

colpabar 3y ago
What really gets me is that they still quote twitter users in articles like this. > Uses on X were quick to support Atkinson with one stating: “If Rowan Atkinson is responsible then give him a knighthood.” > Another users says: “Rowan Atkinson with a degree and masters in Engineering. Knows more than those pushing electric cars.” You can find people saying anything about anything on twitter. It is completely meaningless.

Nexialist 3y ago

The crux of Atkinson's argument seems to be that the upfront emissions from the manufacturing process, and shorter lifespan of electric vehicles, does not make up for the reduction in tailpipe emissions. Is this true? I know that the Tesla Impact report [0] refutes this, stating > "While EVs today still emit more greenhouse gases during the manufacturing phase, including emissions from the supply chain, it takes less than two years' worth of driving before the total emissions from an EV fall below that of a comparable ICE vehicle." but it's hardly an unbiased source. [0] https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2022-tesla-impact-report-highlights.pdf https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2022-tesla-impact-report-hig... EDIT: Since posting, found some of the sources that were linked by the guardian follow-up refuting Atkinson's claim: - The IPCC Mitigation of Climate Change report [1] - The ECIU "Energy price shock and the transition to electric vehicles" Report [2] - Ricardo Energy & Environment report to the UK Dept of Transport [3] - Carbonbrief factcheck article [4] [1] https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg3/ https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg3/ [2] https://eciu.net/analysis/reports/2022/global-momentum-the-energy-price-shock-and-the-transition-to-electric-vehicles https://eciu.net/analysis/reports/2022/global-momentum-the-e... [3] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1062603/lifecycle-analysis-of-UK-road-vehicles.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [4] https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-...

jahnu 3y ago
Hanna Richie is a reliable source, imo. https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/ev-fossil-cars-climate https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/ev-fossil-cars-cli...

TacticalCoder 3y ago

Rowan Atkinson is a notorious petrolhead: all of us petrolheads are in awe when we see his car collection. My point is: petrolheads are probably harder to convince when it comes to switching to EVs.

bell-cot 3y ago

Ah... Interesting theory. But if this actor bloke can tank car sales in the whole UK, with just an article in some newspaper...shouldn't News Corp be fawning over and toadying up to him? After all, he might write another article, telling all their advertisers to take their marketing budgets elsewhere.

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

The Rowan Atkinson article in question and some discussion here at the time 8 months ago: I love electric vehicles – and was early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36180186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36180186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36174660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36174660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36193984 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36193984

Overtonwindow 3y ago

Full disclosure, I have a Tesla and I love it. I have access to superchargers and home charging, and it has not really increased my utility bill. We should all want emissions free driving, I don’t think that is the issue, but to get there the quality of the vehicle, charging networks, and driving behavior will have to change. I am ok with having both ICE and EVs, let people choose, but I also believe in the long run emissions free will win out. Today it’s EVs but who knows where we might go.

jitl 3y ago

Haha it’s like the Apple Vision Pro - seems like the time to buy one is in 2-3 years, where in North America we’ll have non-Tesla cars with Tesla/NACS plugs, a few more charging stations, and manufacturers will have brought back more buttons and worked out some other issues with gen1 models. And hopefully GE and Hyundai will figure out wireless CarPlay is a good idea, and the new Toyota CEO will have them making true Toyota-quality BEV platform.

cheradenine_uk 3y ago

Decline? What decline? https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/ https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/ January data: BEV share +20% YoY