8 ms·

Curious to see if Musk is willing to step in and disable them or if this treatment is reserved for UAF only.

by DecoySalamander 3y ago

luciusdomitius 3y ago
[flagged]
- yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
  This is completely untrue. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/07/elon-musk-ordered-starlink-turned-off-ukraine-offensive-biography#:~:text=The%20biography%2C%20due%20out%20on,attack%20on%20Russian%2Doccupied%20Crimea https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/07/elon-musk....
petre 3y ago
Why disable? They're useful to launch attacks on Russian troops by giving away their positions.
- yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
  The point is that he's done this before in order to disadvantage Ukraine. He is quite clearly on the side of russia.
  - Traubenfuchs 3y ago
    > He is quite clearly on the side of russia. I wonder if that's true: Maybe he just wants to be a controversial contrarian and always tries to be on the "non-woke" and "non-mainstream" side. Doesn't change much in this instance, but still.
    - actionfromafar 3y ago
      So, temporarily on the side of Russia until Russia becomes woke and mainstream, then.
  - severino 3y ago
    He is on the side of Russia but giving away for free this Starlink thing to the UAF that has proven useful for their operations. But how come the UAF are still using Starlink if it's provided by someone clearly on the side or Russia?
    - threeseed 3y ago
      SpaceX has a contract with the US DoD to supply them to Ukraine.
    - simion314 3y ago
      >But how come the UAF are still using Starlink if it's provided by someone clearly on the side or Russia? US government bought some antennas so even if he loves Putin he can't bite the USA government who gave Tesla and SpaceX a ton of money.
    - saiya-jin 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - vardump 3y ago
        I think they were geofenced all along. Otherwise Russians could have used captured Starlink terminals to their advantage. Nothing to do with Starlink or Musk. Those orders were from the State Department.
      - inemesitaffia 3y ago
        Look at the starlink coverage map
      - throwaway44023 3y ago
        One thing is if some soldiers use it to have Google Meet video calls from the battle field. That's comparable to selling some consumer laptops to the army - nobody cares. Entirely another thing - and now I mean the US ITAR perspective - is if it's used literally as key and unique capability enabling part of a drone weapon. Now that makes it a weapon too. SpaceX doesn't have the US government's approval to manufacture weapons, export weapons or sell them to Ukraine army. The terminal or the constellation itself must not be used as a weapon according to the US law, and the operator must do everything to stop such use. You should be angry with the US government. Biden could go live on the TV right now and say "Mr. Musk, it's fine - we allow it.". And if Musk didn't do it anyways, then you'd be right to be angry with him. But the US government didn't and won't do that. Take it to your elected representative, not to a businessman doing what the law requires him to do. You know what was the biggest fail, IMHO? That UA soldiers put the video online. Up until nobody knew, nobody cared. They carried out several attacks. Then they showed the world - and of course it got banned, there is no other option on SpaceX or Musk's side.
  - z7 3y ago
    >He is quite clearly on the side of russia. He said he "donated $100M to Ukraine" though: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1650008972865224704 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1650008972865224704
    - KingOfCoders 3y ago
      I donated $200M to Ukraine.
      - vdaea 3y ago
        I donated $400M. Smuggling cocaine into Kiev is expensive, you know...
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      He's lied on Twitter before. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026872652290379776 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026872652290379776 resulted in his having to step down as Tesla board chair and have his tweets vetted by a minder. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/elon-musk-ordered-to-abide-by-sec-settlement-over-2018-tweets https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/elon-musk-ordered-to-ab...
      - z7 3y ago
        I assume he meant that the 20,000 Starlink terminals donated to Ukraine had cost $100 million.
        robin_reala 3y ago
        $5k each?
        djbusby 3y ago
        The ones paid for by US DoD contract?
        throwaway44023 3y ago
  - menacingly 3y ago
    1) why is that quite clear? 2) so?
    - yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
      What do you mean "so"? If someone were also on the side of Adolf Hitler, would you take the same neutral position?
      - menacingly 3y ago
        Well, in that case I think I'd 1) Not dilute the horrific tragedy of a century in pursuit of my histrionic agenda 2) Try and not overfit the clean simple morality of young adult fiction onto the real world
        yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
        Histrionic? Over three quarters of a million people are dead from this war. The morality is indeed clean and simple here. Trying to portray this as some deeply, historically complicated and nuanced situation is pretentious, and I'd hazard a guess that anyone taking this position likely has little familiarity with the war and why it's happening.
foul 3y ago
This is a very valid excuse for later censorship out of Ukraine, but he should instead give away their positions.
- pilsetnieks 3y ago
  An Operation Mincemeat of our time.
philipwhiuk 3y ago
Control over this was passed to the US government I believe.
inemesitaffia 3y ago
Spreading disinformation I see. Starlink has a service map that excludes certain areas. Go take a look at Ukraine
- r3d0c 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - inemesitaffia 3y ago
    Yes we all know when a frontline moves from day to day a satcom supplier can figure out who is in possession of what equipment without disclosure of the user.
suddenclarity 3y ago
This was immediately debunked by the source himself? > Following the publication of this article, Walter Isaacson retracted the claim. Walter Isaacson said his biography’s claim about Starlink and Crimea was based on “mistaken” information.
infecto 3y ago
These kind of conversations are exhausting. I for one don’t know all the details, which I think there are many. I realize it is easy to make a blanket accusation and harder to provide details. Last time I looked this up it was pretty murky. Specifically on your point I believe there was a couple things at play but maybe I am wrong. 1) did not have approval by the state department 2) blanket rule that they could be used but not on weaponry. They were using these with drones to bomb a Russian fleet. I don’t know what the right answer here is but it would be nice to explore the topic more than “Musk is bad”.
- belter 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - vixen99 3y ago
    Why is this comment noteworthy? He is a smart guy irrespective of whomsoever makes this observation.
    - belter 3y ago
      You would not find worth of self-reflection, if an indicted war criminal would be publicly praising you? "Elon Musk spoke with Vladimir Putin directly, Pentagon official says" - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/elon-musk-putin-colin-kahl-pentagon-ukraine-starlink-b2397109.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/elon-musk-pu... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_indicted_in_the_International_Criminal_Court https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_indicted_in_the... "CC judges issue arrest warrants against Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova" - https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-is...
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - 3y ago

Curious to see if Musk is willing to step in and disable them or if this treatment is reserved for UAF only.

luciusdomitius 3y ago

[flagged]

yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
This is completely untrue. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/07/elon-musk-ordered-starlink-turned-off-ukraine-offensive-biography#:~:text=The%20biography%2C%20due%20out%20on,attack%20on%20Russian%2Doccupied%20Crimea https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/07/elon-musk....

petre 3y ago

Why disable? They're useful to launch attacks on Russian troops by giving away their positions.

yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
The point is that he's done this before in order to disadvantage Ukraine. He is quite clearly on the side of russia.
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  > He is quite clearly on the side of russia. I wonder if that's true: Maybe he just wants to be a controversial contrarian and always tries to be on the "non-woke" and "non-mainstream" side. Doesn't change much in this instance, but still.
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    So, temporarily on the side of Russia until Russia becomes woke and mainstream, then.
- severino 3y ago
  He is on the side of Russia but giving away for free this Starlink thing to the UAF that has proven useful for their operations. But how come the UAF are still using Starlink if it's provided by someone clearly on the side or Russia?
  - threeseed 3y ago
    SpaceX has a contract with the US DoD to supply them to Ukraine.
  - simion314 3y ago
    >But how come the UAF are still using Starlink if it's provided by someone clearly on the side or Russia? US government bought some antennas so even if he loves Putin he can't bite the USA government who gave Tesla and SpaceX a ton of money.
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - vardump 3y ago
      I think they were geofenced all along. Otherwise Russians could have used captured Starlink terminals to their advantage. Nothing to do with Starlink or Musk. Those orders were from the State Department.
    - inemesitaffia 3y ago
      Look at the starlink coverage map
    - throwaway44023 3y ago
      One thing is if some soldiers use it to have Google Meet video calls from the battle field. That's comparable to selling some consumer laptops to the army - nobody cares. Entirely another thing - and now I mean the US ITAR perspective - is if it's used literally as key and unique capability enabling part of a drone weapon. Now that makes it a weapon too. SpaceX doesn't have the US government's approval to manufacture weapons, export weapons or sell them to Ukraine army. The terminal or the constellation itself must not be used as a weapon according to the US law, and the operator must do everything to stop such use. You should be angry with the US government. Biden could go live on the TV right now and say "Mr. Musk, it's fine - we allow it.". And if Musk didn't do it anyways, then you'd be right to be angry with him. But the US government didn't and won't do that. Take it to your elected representative, not to a businessman doing what the law requires him to do. You know what was the biggest fail, IMHO? That UA soldiers put the video online. Up until nobody knew, nobody cared. They carried out several attacks. Then they showed the world - and of course it got banned, there is no other option on SpaceX or Musk's side.
- z7 3y ago
  >He is quite clearly on the side of russia. He said he "donated $100M to Ukraine" though: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1650008972865224704 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1650008972865224704
  - KingOfCoders 3y ago
    I donated $200M to Ukraine.
    - vdaea 3y ago
      I donated $400M. Smuggling cocaine into Kiev is expensive, you know...
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    He's lied on Twitter before. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026872652290379776 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026872652290379776 resulted in his having to step down as Tesla board chair and have his tweets vetted by a minder. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/elon-musk-ordered-to-abide-by-sec-settlement-over-2018-tweets https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/elon-musk-ordered-to-ab...
    - z7 3y ago
      I assume he meant that the 20,000 Starlink terminals donated to Ukraine had cost $100 million.
      - robin_reala 3y ago
        $5k each?
      - djbusby 3y ago
        The ones paid for by US DoD contract?
        throwaway44023 3y ago
- menacingly 3y ago
  1) why is that quite clear? 2) so?
  - yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
    What do you mean "so"? If someone were also on the side of Adolf Hitler, would you take the same neutral position?
    - menacingly 3y ago
      Well, in that case I think I'd 1) Not dilute the horrific tragedy of a century in pursuit of my histrionic agenda 2) Try and not overfit the clean simple morality of young adult fiction onto the real world
      - yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
        Histrionic? Over three quarters of a million people are dead from this war. The morality is indeed clean and simple here. Trying to portray this as some deeply, historically complicated and nuanced situation is pretentious, and I'd hazard a guess that anyone taking this position likely has little familiarity with the war and why it's happening.

foul 3y ago

This is a very valid excuse for later censorship out of Ukraine, but he should instead give away their positions.

pilsetnieks 3y ago
An Operation Mincemeat of our time.

philipwhiuk 3y ago

Control over this was passed to the US government I believe.

inemesitaffia 3y ago

Spreading disinformation I see. Starlink has a service map that excludes certain areas. Go take a look at Ukraine

r3d0c 3y ago
[flagged]
- inemesitaffia 3y ago
  Yes we all know when a frontline moves from day to day a satcom supplier can figure out who is in possession of what equipment without disclosure of the user.

suddenclarity 3y ago

This was immediately debunked by the source himself? > Following the publication of this article, Walter Isaacson retracted the claim. Walter Isaacson said his biography’s claim about Starlink and Crimea was based on “mistaken” information.

infecto 3y ago

These kind of conversations are exhausting. I for one don’t know all the details, which I think there are many. I realize it is easy to make a blanket accusation and harder to provide details. Last time I looked this up it was pretty murky. Specifically on your point I believe there was a couple things at play but maybe I am wrong. 1) did not have approval by the state department 2) blanket rule that they could be used but not on weaponry. They were using these with drones to bomb a Russian fleet. I don’t know what the right answer here is but it would be nice to explore the topic more than “Musk is bad”.

belter 3y ago
[flagged]
- vixen99 3y ago
  Why is this comment noteworthy? He is a smart guy irrespective of whomsoever makes this observation.
  - belter 3y ago
    You would not find worth of self-reflection, if an indicted war criminal would be publicly praising you? "Elon Musk spoke with Vladimir Putin directly, Pentagon official says" - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/elon-musk-putin-colin-kahl-pentagon-ukraine-starlink-b2397109.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/elon-musk-pu... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_indicted_in_the_International_Criminal_Court https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_indicted_in_the... "CC judges issue arrest warrants against Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova" - https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-is...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - 3y ago