4 ms·

Inflation in basic goods and exorbitant rents mean that a lot of people are struggling far more than GDP-style indicators would imply. There's also secular dec

Inflation in basic goods and exorbitant rents mean that a lot of people are struggling far more than GDP-style indicators would imply. There's also secular decline in a lot of southern european manufacturing, so the economic basis for stable income and family life in a lot of places just isn't there anymore.

wolverine876 3y ago
That would seem to lean people toward the left wing, which supports workers, not the right, which supports the wealthy and powerful.
- pyuser583 3y ago
  The left wing is also very pro-immigration and globalization. That’s the big wedge issue for the far right - migration of people and capital. When their factory closes down and is moved to a cheaper country, might the workers be worried about open borders?
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > The left wing is also very pro-... globalization. That conflates the centrists, including left and right (when there was a center-right) with the left. The progressive left was always dubious at best about globalization, iirc. The migration thing is, to a great extent, people inflaming ethnic hatred. People like open borders when they want to migrate themselves, or hire migrants; it also brings trade and tourism; it brings peace and eliminates pointless political distinctions. I agree that globalization needs to address the relatively easy mobility of capital relative to labor. But that problem is arguably extreme capitalism - where the capitalists get whatever they want - not globalization. Globalization writ by labor would have looked a lot different.
    - pyuser583 3y ago
      Actual “labor” has a strong social conservative streak, especially in regards to migration. Notice the protests by farmers, truckers, etc. The progressive left in America is formed in heavily globalized universities. They are 100% in support of globalization, as they are beneficiaries and producers of it. I don’t know where the “heart and soul” of the European progressive left is. Other than Spanish socialists, I don’t think there are many.
      - pasabagi 3y ago
        > Actual “labor” has a strong social conservative streak, especially in regards to migration. Eh, this varies. Most people in the labour force are young, and young people are generally leftward-leaning. In some regions of the UK, labour have traditionally been pretty socially progressive.
        pyuser583 3y ago
        It does vary, as does support for neofascism. There’s little support for neofascism in the UK, so it’s not the best example as to why fascism is making a comeback.

wolverine876 3y ago

That would seem to lean people toward the left wing, which supports workers, not the right, which supports the wealthy and powerful.

pyuser583 3y ago
The left wing is also very pro-immigration and globalization. That’s the big wedge issue for the far right - migration of people and capital. When their factory closes down and is moved to a cheaper country, might the workers be worried about open borders?
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > The left wing is also very pro-... globalization. That conflates the centrists, including left and right (when there was a center-right) with the left. The progressive left was always dubious at best about globalization, iirc. The migration thing is, to a great extent, people inflaming ethnic hatred. People like open borders when they want to migrate themselves, or hire migrants; it also brings trade and tourism; it brings peace and eliminates pointless political distinctions. I agree that globalization needs to address the relatively easy mobility of capital relative to labor. But that problem is arguably extreme capitalism - where the capitalists get whatever they want - not globalization. Globalization writ by labor would have looked a lot different.
  - pyuser583 3y ago
    Actual “labor” has a strong social conservative streak, especially in regards to migration. Notice the protests by farmers, truckers, etc. The progressive left in America is formed in heavily globalized universities. They are 100% in support of globalization, as they are beneficiaries and producers of it. I don’t know where the “heart and soul” of the European progressive left is. Other than Spanish socialists, I don’t think there are many.
    - pasabagi 3y ago
      > Actual “labor” has a strong social conservative streak, especially in regards to migration. Eh, this varies. Most people in the labour force are young, and young people are generally leftward-leaning. In some regions of the UK, labour have traditionally been pretty socially progressive.
      - pyuser583 3y ago
        It does vary, as does support for neofascism. There’s little support for neofascism in the UK, so it’s not the best example as to why fascism is making a comeback.