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Did I miss the part where he suggested what to use that's better than React? At this point we've been through enough front end churn, React is fine. Components

Did I miss the part where he suggested what to use that's better than React? At this point we've been through enough front end churn, React is fine. Components, static typing, a javascript/html based templating language. Server and client side rendering. With Next.js my DX is better than anything I've used before. Vanilla JS? Yea, no thanks. I'm not going back to square one, choose your own adventure custom framework because of your skill issue.

bemusedthrow75 3y ago
I too am not going back to square one, and I find React to be fine for e.g. a Gutenberg component. But I'm looking at tiny web interfaces for microcontrollers at the moment, and as an experienced Vue developer I find petite-vue and a classless CSS framework an appealing compromise for designs without a build step. With a build step, maybe preact?
- Osmose 3y ago
  You can use Preact + HTM to skip the build step, too. It's very nice for the middle ground where DOM management gets annoying but adding a build process would be difficult.
  - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
    I knew it was usable without the build step but it's been a while since I looked at preact and I did not know about HTM -- thank you!!
wiseowise 3y ago
> Vanilla JS? Yea, no thanks. I'm not going back to square one, choose your own adventure custom framework because of your skill issue. Isn't it the other way around? Those who have skill issues select React?
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  No, I don't think so. It's possible to write a whole load of very clever things in vanilla JS, but it's not always a good use of time to do so, and it is not a very easy way to develop things in large teams, without building up an abstraction layer with getters and setters that is not appreciably better than a minimal reactive framework. The one-way data flow in reactive frameworks is the bit worth fighting for (and fighting over).
someotherperson 3y ago
Back to square one? Not at all. ES6+ makes writing pure JS quite easy. I've managed to put together multipage forms, with end to end validation and conditional rendering, in just a few hours. Doing the same thing would have required a full blown react app.
WorldMaker 3y ago
Vanilla JS is better these days than when React first arrived. ES Modules are natively supported in browsers now and give you much of a component system. Though to be fair, rather than using Vanilla JS alone I did recently write my own React-looking but not React-like view engine: https://worldmaker.net/butterfloat/#/ https://worldmaker.net/butterfloat/#/
deleted 3y ago
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bemusedthrow75 3y ago

I too am not going back to square one, and I find React to be fine for e.g. a Gutenberg component. But I'm looking at tiny web interfaces for microcontrollers at the moment, and as an experienced Vue developer I find petite-vue and a classless CSS framework an appealing compromise for designs without a build step. With a build step, maybe preact?

Osmose 3y ago
You can use Preact + HTM to skip the build step, too. It's very nice for the middle ground where DOM management gets annoying but adding a build process would be difficult.
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  I knew it was usable without the build step but it's been a while since I looked at preact and I did not know about HTM -- thank you!!

wiseowise 3y ago

> Vanilla JS? Yea, no thanks. I'm not going back to square one, choose your own adventure custom framework because of your skill issue. Isn't it the other way around? Those who have skill issues select React?

bemusedthrow75 3y ago
No, I don't think so. It's possible to write a whole load of very clever things in vanilla JS, but it's not always a good use of time to do so, and it is not a very easy way to develop things in large teams, without building up an abstraction layer with getters and setters that is not appreciably better than a minimal reactive framework. The one-way data flow in reactive frameworks is the bit worth fighting for (and fighting over).

someotherperson 3y ago

Back to square one? Not at all. ES6+ makes writing pure JS quite easy. I've managed to put together multipage forms, with end to end validation and conditional rendering, in just a few hours. Doing the same thing would have required a full blown react app.

WorldMaker 3y ago

Vanilla JS is better these days than when React first arrived. ES Modules are natively supported in browsers now and give you much of a component system. Though to be fair, rather than using Vanilla JS alone I did recently write my own React-looking but not React-like view engine: https://worldmaker.net/butterfloat/#/ https://worldmaker.net/butterfloat/#/

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]