4 ms·

Are we talking about the physical burden of taking a desktop or are we talking about why it's not a good work environment?

vsnf 3y ago
Laptops, not desktops. Lugging a desktop around would certainly be worthy of an eyebrow raise. As for why it's not a good work environment, you've presented a loaded question. It may not be a good environment for you, but it is for me. To presume it uniformly bad is a starting off with a flawed premise.
- theGeatZhopa 3y ago
  It's a bad working environment for one reason: It's to noisy and one gets distracted easily. Even if you say it's good for you, you might not notice it. Keep it real. Just think and tell, why you're not everyday working in such an environment, but rather occasionally and on special days "must be there". And on other days you choose to work from somewhere else. I can tell you: if you have a task you need concentration for, you won't go to a Cafe. You won't even think of going into one. You'll go there where it's calm. Even a writer that scouts for inspiration won't be in a noisy environment after he found it. Analyze your last week's if you want so :) The best one's are the ones with noise cancelling sitting in Starbucks with their laptop. I understand it's a necessity for traveling workers and there's may be no other option for them ftm. I can't tell the difference between traveling/not traveling.. But others can :)
  - vsnf 3y ago
    No, it's a bad working environment for you, and I'd appreciate if you didn't condescend me with smiley faces and presume to make declarations about my productivity on my behalf. > Just think and tell, why you're not everyday working in such an environment, But I am. >And on other days you choose to work from somewhere else. I do not. > Analyze your last week's if you want so :) I did. I was at various cafes 6 of the last 7 days. I would be less productive at home, or any other quiet, non-energetic environment. I would know, I've tried and hated it. I respect that this is a somewhat unorthodox approach to a working environment and may be difficult to comprehend, but what is true for you is not some global truth you can apply to the rest of us unconditionally.
    - theGeatZhopa 3y ago
      Why so aggressive? Like my girlfriend who each time listens music with earphones while learning things for her exams with exactly the same arguments like you - like "it's your problem, not my", "I can't learn without music", "I learn faster with music" ... It's ok. It's her choice. I see her switching each few tenth seconds, sometimes also a "not that song again" can be heard. She's distracted every now and then and - that - she don't realize, because it's against "her experiences" that are based on "her experiences" which has listening to music as basis. She might be productive in her eyes, but I see her distracted every few seconds for a few seconds to a few mins searching for the right song to learn. She might say "I learned much more while listening to music", but I see she learns more faster, when she learns with some other in a quiet environment. It's a fact. No matter what you do or what you feel like, our brains are the same. We only can keep up 10mins of pure concentration without distractions, then we need a short pause. The same applies to learning things effectively, especially if you try to understand smthg. The biggest brainer here: to recognize this and being able to see, that pure concentration can't be achieved in a soundy/loud environment because our brain is always working and filtering the visual/background noise information around us for danger. This costs attention and we get lightly distracted by some unfamiliar sound, like some one swirling the tea spoon in the teacup. This applies if some brain doesn't have the Attention Deficit Syndrome, where you can't keep your attention to one thing for a few seconds. This brains have a problem to concentrate anyway and never experience nor have the need for a quiet surrounding. But this can't be compared then, as it's a special case and the majority do not have this condition. So with a smile face, you either have a lack of self reflection on that topic and talk out of experiences, which you made and which happens to be "typically in a cafe" or you have some sort of concentration problems anyway. I can tell you - when I was a student, my best study friend and me, we prepared our exams in loud environments and in quiet ones. We learned at a busy McDonald's from 10 am 'til 6pm. While it was very cool and productive - self reflection tells me it wasn't. It was all the light stuff we did in noisy environments. But the heavy stuff has been lifted in the night time like 1 am in the university - where it happened to be quit. Of course, also the noisy environments yielded good results - but I don't lie to myself, they could've been better with me doing quiet learning instead doing enjoyable learning. So take it like you want, you can't talk away science. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6901841/#:~:text=Noise%20as%20a%20sensory%20stimulus,the%20performance%20of%20attentional%20functions https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6901841/#:~:tex.... It's a kind of a "religion talk" talking that kind of topics - because it's hard for us to reflect the bad things and to admit one's wrongs. Its difficult to look at it unbiased :) with a smily face sliding out of the discussion.
  - solardev 3y ago
    Not everyone works that way. I have trouble concentrating in really quiet environments and actually do better with a low to moderate amount of background noise, like a coffee shop or coworking space. I do some of my best work there. Offices are OK but rarely all that comfortable. Libraries are too quiet and kinda creepy to me. Bars are too loud and distracting (and the alcohol doesn't help). Coffee shops are a nice in between.
    - theGeatZhopa 3y ago
      Yes our brains are sometimes strangers of their own. If you're realizing that you have problems to concentrate in quiet environment and that you need a background noise - then half of the work of self reflection has been done by you. The other half is to understand what is the difference to the millions who need quiet rooms? Me too, I enjoy working in a office and hate it to work from home (too quiet). But that's for the light stuff and for the distractions, which I need to release the concentration build ups - to be effective. I need my cig everything 15 to 20 mins - as this is exactly the time one should do a pause anyway. I also would answer like "we are different. I can't work like 2h without a break. I need my cig and concentration can't be kept up longer then ten mins and then needs an refresh" thats my experience I'm taking off. But then, having quit smoking for a period of time, I noticed that I have much more time left for my work. Per hour 3 cigs means you actually have 42 mins of 60 mins left, within a work day of 8 hours, that would mean 3x8x6mins == 144 mins or 2h wasted within a day. But what did make me reflect with even more criticism on my life's experiences is the fact that while quitting smoking and regaining the 2h spend on cigs daily - my productivity rose more than this additional 2h would suggest. In two/three days smoke free I did the work of weeks. So I made an controlled experiment and found out, it's not the wasted time of 2h for smoking, but rather the 6 mins of break taken whenever I thought "I have to think about that problem while smoking outside". That was a break in my process of thinking. And, I realized that finished smoking after, a few minutes are needed to find one's way into thinking again. And that's the problem. Because then, a cig costs me 10 mins instead of 6. So I was unconsciously wasting half of my working time, just because I was sure I need a break and a cig because it's like that and I can't do without. In the end I started smoking again and kept my new gained-by-experiment-knowledge out of reach of my then-Boss. So the difficulty, like everywhere in one's life, is to think and to analyze and to admit being wrong at smthg, rather then pure talking out of experiences without any reflection on this. Actually it's a disability and discomfort to admit one was wrong :) I don't tell you how and where you should work. I just said, work in a noisy environment like a cafe bears too much of distractions and one has to realize that first..
- Zetobal 3y ago
  I totally depends on your work. A coffee shop is probably a pretty good work environment for a barista but there are certainly better work environments for most developers.
earthwalker99 3y ago
People with laptops go to coffee shops to drink coffee and share the company of other people. You can't do that with a vision pro.
- spacemadness 3y ago
  I realize now how long it’s been since I heard this argument. I don’t fully disagree to be clear—as when everyone in the coffee shop is on a laptop it starts to feel odd and sterile; I’m basically in a corporate office. But it seems to have gone way of the “I can’t stand people using phones on the bus/train.”

vsnf 3y ago

Laptops, not desktops. Lugging a desktop around would certainly be worthy of an eyebrow raise. As for why it's not a good work environment, you've presented a loaded question. It may not be a good environment for you, but it is for me. To presume it uniformly bad is a starting off with a flawed premise.

theGeatZhopa 3y ago
It's a bad working environment for one reason: It's to noisy and one gets distracted easily. Even if you say it's good for you, you might not notice it. Keep it real. Just think and tell, why you're not everyday working in such an environment, but rather occasionally and on special days "must be there". And on other days you choose to work from somewhere else. I can tell you: if you have a task you need concentration for, you won't go to a Cafe. You won't even think of going into one. You'll go there where it's calm. Even a writer that scouts for inspiration won't be in a noisy environment after he found it. Analyze your last week's if you want so :) The best one's are the ones with noise cancelling sitting in Starbucks with their laptop. I understand it's a necessity for traveling workers and there's may be no other option for them ftm. I can't tell the difference between traveling/not traveling.. But others can :)
- vsnf 3y ago
  No, it's a bad working environment for you, and I'd appreciate if you didn't condescend me with smiley faces and presume to make declarations about my productivity on my behalf. > Just think and tell, why you're not everyday working in such an environment, But I am. >And on other days you choose to work from somewhere else. I do not. > Analyze your last week's if you want so :) I did. I was at various cafes 6 of the last 7 days. I would be less productive at home, or any other quiet, non-energetic environment. I would know, I've tried and hated it. I respect that this is a somewhat unorthodox approach to a working environment and may be difficult to comprehend, but what is true for you is not some global truth you can apply to the rest of us unconditionally.
  - theGeatZhopa 3y ago
    Why so aggressive? Like my girlfriend who each time listens music with earphones while learning things for her exams with exactly the same arguments like you - like "it's your problem, not my", "I can't learn without music", "I learn faster with music" ... It's ok. It's her choice. I see her switching each few tenth seconds, sometimes also a "not that song again" can be heard. She's distracted every now and then and - that - she don't realize, because it's against "her experiences" that are based on "her experiences" which has listening to music as basis. She might be productive in her eyes, but I see her distracted every few seconds for a few seconds to a few mins searching for the right song to learn. She might say "I learned much more while listening to music", but I see she learns more faster, when she learns with some other in a quiet environment. It's a fact. No matter what you do or what you feel like, our brains are the same. We only can keep up 10mins of pure concentration without distractions, then we need a short pause. The same applies to learning things effectively, especially if you try to understand smthg. The biggest brainer here: to recognize this and being able to see, that pure concentration can't be achieved in a soundy/loud environment because our brain is always working and filtering the visual/background noise information around us for danger. This costs attention and we get lightly distracted by some unfamiliar sound, like some one swirling the tea spoon in the teacup. This applies if some brain doesn't have the Attention Deficit Syndrome, where you can't keep your attention to one thing for a few seconds. This brains have a problem to concentrate anyway and never experience nor have the need for a quiet surrounding. But this can't be compared then, as it's a special case and the majority do not have this condition. So with a smile face, you either have a lack of self reflection on that topic and talk out of experiences, which you made and which happens to be "typically in a cafe" or you have some sort of concentration problems anyway. I can tell you - when I was a student, my best study friend and me, we prepared our exams in loud environments and in quiet ones. We learned at a busy McDonald's from 10 am 'til 6pm. While it was very cool and productive - self reflection tells me it wasn't. It was all the light stuff we did in noisy environments. But the heavy stuff has been lifted in the night time like 1 am in the university - where it happened to be quit. Of course, also the noisy environments yielded good results - but I don't lie to myself, they could've been better with me doing quiet learning instead doing enjoyable learning. So take it like you want, you can't talk away science. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6901841/#:~:text=Noise%20as%20a%20sensory%20stimulus,the%20performance%20of%20attentional%20functions https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6901841/#:~:tex.... It's a kind of a "religion talk" talking that kind of topics - because it's hard for us to reflect the bad things and to admit one's wrongs. Its difficult to look at it unbiased :) with a smily face sliding out of the discussion.
- solardev 3y ago
  Not everyone works that way. I have trouble concentrating in really quiet environments and actually do better with a low to moderate amount of background noise, like a coffee shop or coworking space. I do some of my best work there. Offices are OK but rarely all that comfortable. Libraries are too quiet and kinda creepy to me. Bars are too loud and distracting (and the alcohol doesn't help). Coffee shops are a nice in between.
  - theGeatZhopa 3y ago
    Yes our brains are sometimes strangers of their own. If you're realizing that you have problems to concentrate in quiet environment and that you need a background noise - then half of the work of self reflection has been done by you. The other half is to understand what is the difference to the millions who need quiet rooms? Me too, I enjoy working in a office and hate it to work from home (too quiet). But that's for the light stuff and for the distractions, which I need to release the concentration build ups - to be effective. I need my cig everything 15 to 20 mins - as this is exactly the time one should do a pause anyway. I also would answer like "we are different. I can't work like 2h without a break. I need my cig and concentration can't be kept up longer then ten mins and then needs an refresh" thats my experience I'm taking off. But then, having quit smoking for a period of time, I noticed that I have much more time left for my work. Per hour 3 cigs means you actually have 42 mins of 60 mins left, within a work day of 8 hours, that would mean 3x8x6mins == 144 mins or 2h wasted within a day. But what did make me reflect with even more criticism on my life's experiences is the fact that while quitting smoking and regaining the 2h spend on cigs daily - my productivity rose more than this additional 2h would suggest. In two/three days smoke free I did the work of weeks. So I made an controlled experiment and found out, it's not the wasted time of 2h for smoking, but rather the 6 mins of break taken whenever I thought "I have to think about that problem while smoking outside". That was a break in my process of thinking. And, I realized that finished smoking after, a few minutes are needed to find one's way into thinking again. And that's the problem. Because then, a cig costs me 10 mins instead of 6. So I was unconsciously wasting half of my working time, just because I was sure I need a break and a cig because it's like that and I can't do without. In the end I started smoking again and kept my new gained-by-experiment-knowledge out of reach of my then-Boss. So the difficulty, like everywhere in one's life, is to think and to analyze and to admit being wrong at smthg, rather then pure talking out of experiences without any reflection on this. Actually it's a disability and discomfort to admit one was wrong :) I don't tell you how and where you should work. I just said, work in a noisy environment like a cafe bears too much of distractions and one has to realize that first..
Zetobal 3y ago
I totally depends on your work. A coffee shop is probably a pretty good work environment for a barista but there are certainly better work environments for most developers.

earthwalker99 3y ago

People with laptops go to coffee shops to drink coffee and share the company of other people. You can't do that with a vision pro.

spacemadness 3y ago
I realize now how long it’s been since I heard this argument. I don’t fully disagree to be clear—as when everyone in the coffee shop is on a laptop it starts to feel odd and sterile; I’m basically in a corporate office. But it seems to have gone way of the “I can’t stand people using phones on the bus/train.”