4 ms·

Under the current interpretation, that would be in their jurisdiction. This is why Chevron deference is dumb.

by rpmisms 3y ago

nielsbot 3y ago
that’s ridiculous
- rpmisms 3y ago
  I agree. Chevron deference has (indirectly) led to a shoelace being confiscated by the ATF as a machine gun.
  - jakogut 3y ago
    Don't forget about Matt Hoover of CRS Firearms being charged for conspiracy to transfer unregistered machine gun conversion devices. His crime? Advertising a trinket known as an "Auto Key Card", a metal business card etched with the outline of a lightning link, a device that--properly manufactured--can make a semi-automatic rifle full-auto. The problem is that this device was nothing more than a drawing on a business card sized piece of steel. It amounts to an egregious first amendment violation at the very least. https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdfl/pr/federal-jury-convicts-two-men-conspiring-transfer-unregistered-machinegun-conversion https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdfl/pr/federal-jury-convicts-t... https://www.pewpewtactical.com/autokeycard-explained/ https://www.pewpewtactical.com/autokeycard-explained/
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      I have not forgotten, I know him and contributed to his defense fund. Absolutely horrendous miscarriage of justice.
    - dclowd9901 3y ago
      You'll have to excuse me if I don't take the word of the website "pewpewtactical" as gospel on this matter. Especially with lines like this: "Aside from the fact the ATF hates anything fun..." There's nothing earnest or in good faith here, and you can't reasonably make me believe otherwise. The person was trying to skirt the law and got caught. Or let me put it another way: if this keycard isn't a big deal, why do gun owners care?
      - rpmisms 3y ago
        > Aside from the fact the ATF hates anything fun. This is an objective fact. > The person was trying to skirt the law and got caught. What law? The law that says you can't distribute a chart of a lightning link? That's not a real law. The point here is that the ATF created the law out of whole cloth. > Or let me put it another way: if this keycard isn't a big deal, why do gun owners care? Are you serious? The guy is going to jail under the charge that he distributed a machine gun, for distributing legal information in a country that has freedom of speech as the first amendment. He didn't even violate ITAR. I have a shirt with the CNC instructions to create a lightning link printed on it. Should I go to prison too? "First they came for the $some_group..."
        dclowd9901 3y ago
        If your underlying intent is to distribute information that helps a person more easily murder other people. Yeah. Yes I think you should go do jail. Guess what I and almost everyone else doesn’t do: that.
        rpmisms 3y ago
        A large part of my life has been dedicated to distributing the means to self-defense to as many people as possible. The right to armament is inherent to humanity, and encoded in our DNA as a nation. I design, prototype and build guns. Too bad for you, everything I do is legal. There's no moral difference between what I do and installing a giggle switch to magdump into trash faster. Machine guns aren't evil because they're regulated.
        jakogut 3y ago
        The idea of freedom of speech, and the Constitutional amendment that enshrines and protects that human right, doesn't exist to protect sending birthday cards to your grandkids. In 1944 hundreds of thousands of liberator pistols were air dropped to the French resistance to fight Axis occupation. In Myanmar today, 3d printed FGC-9 rifles are being used by rebels to resist a coup staged by the military. In Ukraine, as I'm sure you're already aware, weaponry donated by NATO and the United States is being used in combination with improvised munitions delivered by drone to resist a large scale genocidal invasion by Russia. Weapons are tools, no more good or evil than the person wielding the tool. Freedom of information destabilizes monopolies on violence and empowers people to communicate, organize, and defend themselves from aggressors.
  - nielsbot 3y ago
    So because of this you think we should dismantle the administrative state in favor of the judicial apparatus? Everything I've read about this says it will result in mass deregulation of industries that must be regulated. (Koch Industries for example) In practical terms, in our current world, not in some libertarian-inspired fantasy that doesn't exist today. There are definitely areas where Chevron deference can "hurt" us--for example political tampering at agencies.. but overall I think we should rely on experts to do the regulating and try to fix the existing system. On top of that what happened to judicial precedent? Only good when it suits our ends I guess. https://www.vox.com/scotus/2024/1/10/24025127/supreme-court-chevron-deference-loper-bright-relentless-raimondo https://www.vox.com/scotus/2024/1/10/24025127/supreme-court-...
dclowd9901 3y ago
You miss my point. I don't think any court would see the reasonable reach of Chevron to be the FCC being capable of determining what qualifies as an artificial person between people of natural or artificial insemination. "Reasonable" is part and parcel to the decision.

Under the current interpretation, that would be in their jurisdiction. This is why Chevron deference is dumb.

nielsbot 3y ago

that’s ridiculous

rpmisms 3y ago
I agree. Chevron deference has (indirectly) led to a shoelace being confiscated by the ATF as a machine gun.
- jakogut 3y ago
  Don't forget about Matt Hoover of CRS Firearms being charged for conspiracy to transfer unregistered machine gun conversion devices. His crime? Advertising a trinket known as an "Auto Key Card", a metal business card etched with the outline of a lightning link, a device that--properly manufactured--can make a semi-automatic rifle full-auto. The problem is that this device was nothing more than a drawing on a business card sized piece of steel. It amounts to an egregious first amendment violation at the very least. https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdfl/pr/federal-jury-convicts-two-men-conspiring-transfer-unregistered-machinegun-conversion https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdfl/pr/federal-jury-convicts-t... https://www.pewpewtactical.com/autokeycard-explained/ https://www.pewpewtactical.com/autokeycard-explained/
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    I have not forgotten, I know him and contributed to his defense fund. Absolutely horrendous miscarriage of justice.
  - dclowd9901 3y ago
    You'll have to excuse me if I don't take the word of the website "pewpewtactical" as gospel on this matter. Especially with lines like this: "Aside from the fact the ATF hates anything fun..." There's nothing earnest or in good faith here, and you can't reasonably make me believe otherwise. The person was trying to skirt the law and got caught. Or let me put it another way: if this keycard isn't a big deal, why do gun owners care?
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      > Aside from the fact the ATF hates anything fun. This is an objective fact. > The person was trying to skirt the law and got caught. What law? The law that says you can't distribute a chart of a lightning link? That's not a real law. The point here is that the ATF created the law out of whole cloth. > Or let me put it another way: if this keycard isn't a big deal, why do gun owners care? Are you serious? The guy is going to jail under the charge that he distributed a machine gun, for distributing legal information in a country that has freedom of speech as the first amendment. He didn't even violate ITAR. I have a shirt with the CNC instructions to create a lightning link printed on it. Should I go to prison too? "First they came for the $some_group..."
      - dclowd9901 3y ago
        If your underlying intent is to distribute information that helps a person more easily murder other people. Yeah. Yes I think you should go do jail. Guess what I and almost everyone else doesn’t do: that.
        rpmisms 3y ago
        A large part of my life has been dedicated to distributing the means to self-defense to as many people as possible. The right to armament is inherent to humanity, and encoded in our DNA as a nation. I design, prototype and build guns. Too bad for you, everything I do is legal. There's no moral difference between what I do and installing a giggle switch to magdump into trash faster. Machine guns aren't evil because they're regulated.
        jakogut 3y ago
        The idea of freedom of speech, and the Constitutional amendment that enshrines and protects that human right, doesn't exist to protect sending birthday cards to your grandkids. In 1944 hundreds of thousands of liberator pistols were air dropped to the French resistance to fight Axis occupation. In Myanmar today, 3d printed FGC-9 rifles are being used by rebels to resist a coup staged by the military. In Ukraine, as I'm sure you're already aware, weaponry donated by NATO and the United States is being used in combination with improvised munitions delivered by drone to resist a large scale genocidal invasion by Russia. Weapons are tools, no more good or evil than the person wielding the tool. Freedom of information destabilizes monopolies on violence and empowers people to communicate, organize, and defend themselves from aggressors.
- nielsbot 3y ago
  So because of this you think we should dismantle the administrative state in favor of the judicial apparatus? Everything I've read about this says it will result in mass deregulation of industries that must be regulated. (Koch Industries for example) In practical terms, in our current world, not in some libertarian-inspired fantasy that doesn't exist today. There are definitely areas where Chevron deference can "hurt" us--for example political tampering at agencies.. but overall I think we should rely on experts to do the regulating and try to fix the existing system. On top of that what happened to judicial precedent? Only good when it suits our ends I guess. https://www.vox.com/scotus/2024/1/10/24025127/supreme-court-chevron-deference-loper-bright-relentless-raimondo https://www.vox.com/scotus/2024/1/10/24025127/supreme-court-...

dclowd9901 3y ago

You miss my point. I don't think any court would see the reasonable reach of Chevron to be the FCC being capable of determining what qualifies as an artificial person between people of natural or artificial insemination. "Reasonable" is part and parcel to the decision.