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I agree with pretty much everything you've said. But the difference with physical media and streaming access is that it's actually legal to make a backup of ph

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. But the difference with physical media and streaming access is that it's actually legal to make a backup of physical media. It might be annoying or enthusiast-behavior to do so, but on the flip side, if a company finds out I'm making rips of streams, they'll at the least shut off my account (which includes access to the rest of the media) and quite possible throw a lawyer at me. Companies have done everything they can to nuke the idea of perpetuity.

RajT88 3y ago
> if a company finds out I'm making rips of streams Vanishingly few people are themselves ripping streams thanks to Widevine. They are just torrenting stuff. BTW only the first "level" of widevine has been cracked as far as I can find, which is limited to lower quality streams.
- Retr0id 3y ago
  The torrents don't just pop out of thin air, someone has to download from the streaming service and strip the DRM at least once.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    Right, but my point is most people are not ripping streams. HDRips are likely either some 0day exploit in Widevine or a device which pretends to respect HDCP. Just about everyone archiving or "archiving" is torrenting.
    - Retr0id 3y ago
      I'd argue that the archival happens the moment the DRM is stripped, the seeders are just helping out with the data replication part - but I get what you're saying. As an aside, HDCP is broken in practice but frowned upon for archival, since it requires a re-encode, introducing generation loss.
      - charcircuit 3y ago
        HDCP itself isn't broken, but it shifts the problem to the next weakest link which would be between the controller board and the panel.
        Retr0id 3y ago
        No, HDCP itself is broken. According to the DMCA, and corresponding legal precedent[1], you're allowed to convert one version of HDCP to another. You can buy legitimate adapters off the shelf (provisioned with valid keys) to convert HDCP 2.2 to HDCP 1.4. No jumping through hoops, no legal grey areas (for now), it just works. HDCP 1.4 uses export-grade (broken) cryptography, the master keys are available on the public web. But you don't need to bother understanding the specifics, since just about any HDMI 1.4 sink you buy from China (whether it's a capture card or splitter) will strip HDCP 1.4 as a matter of course. [1] https://torrentfreak.com/4k-content-protection-stripper-beats-warner-bros-in-court-1605xx/ https://torrentfreak.com/4k-content-protection-stripper-beat...
        charcircuit 3y ago
        You may be allowed, but how would such a device get keys from DCP, and how do they avoid all of those keys being immediately blacklisted from being used for HDCP downgrades? HDCP 2.2 isn't the latest version either.
        Retr0id 3y ago
        They don't get blacklisted because what they're doing is explicitly allowed, and very widespread. Yes, HDCP 2.3 is the latest version but HDCP 2.2 is all you need in practice. I can't talk from experience on 2.3, but I can on 2.2, so that's what I referenced. If you don't believe me but also don't want to buy any hardware to test for yourself, search for "HDCP 2.2 splitter" on amazon and read the reviews (but beware of confused customers who aren't aware of the difference between HDCP 2.2 and 1.4).
        3y ago
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
thfuran 3y ago
>it's actually legal to make a backup of physical media Well, sort of. It's legal to have one, but the steps necessary to actually make it aren't always legal.

RajT88 3y ago

> if a company finds out I'm making rips of streams Vanishingly few people are themselves ripping streams thanks to Widevine. They are just torrenting stuff. BTW only the first "level" of widevine has been cracked as far as I can find, which is limited to lower quality streams.

Retr0id 3y ago
The torrents don't just pop out of thin air, someone has to download from the streaming service and strip the DRM at least once.
- RajT88 3y ago
  Right, but my point is most people are not ripping streams. HDRips are likely either some 0day exploit in Widevine or a device which pretends to respect HDCP. Just about everyone archiving or "archiving" is torrenting.
  - Retr0id 3y ago
    I'd argue that the archival happens the moment the DRM is stripped, the seeders are just helping out with the data replication part - but I get what you're saying. As an aside, HDCP is broken in practice but frowned upon for archival, since it requires a re-encode, introducing generation loss.
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      HDCP itself isn't broken, but it shifts the problem to the next weakest link which would be between the controller board and the panel.
      - Retr0id 3y ago
        No, HDCP itself is broken. According to the DMCA, and corresponding legal precedent[1], you're allowed to convert one version of HDCP to another. You can buy legitimate adapters off the shelf (provisioned with valid keys) to convert HDCP 2.2 to HDCP 1.4. No jumping through hoops, no legal grey areas (for now), it just works. HDCP 1.4 uses export-grade (broken) cryptography, the master keys are available on the public web. But you don't need to bother understanding the specifics, since just about any HDMI 1.4 sink you buy from China (whether it's a capture card or splitter) will strip HDCP 1.4 as a matter of course. [1] https://torrentfreak.com/4k-content-protection-stripper-beats-warner-bros-in-court-1605xx/ https://torrentfreak.com/4k-content-protection-stripper-beat...
        charcircuit 3y ago
        You may be allowed, but how would such a device get keys from DCP, and how do they avoid all of those keys being immediately blacklisted from being used for HDCP downgrades? HDCP 2.2 isn't the latest version either.
        Retr0id 3y ago
        They don't get blacklisted because what they're doing is explicitly allowed, and very widespread. Yes, HDCP 2.3 is the latest version but HDCP 2.2 is all you need in practice. I can't talk from experience on 2.3, but I can on 2.2, so that's what I referenced. If you don't believe me but also don't want to buy any hardware to test for yourself, search for "HDCP 2.2 splitter" on amazon and read the reviews (but beware of confused customers who aren't aware of the difference between HDCP 2.2 and 1.4).
        3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

thfuran 3y ago

>it's actually legal to make a backup of physical media Well, sort of. It's legal to have one, but the steps necessary to actually make it aren't always legal.