5 ms·

I think it indicates a care and deeper appreciation for the person in a way that anything else wouldn't. "$NAME was $COMPANY's first intern, and went on to sta

by caslon 3y ago

I think it indicates a care and deeper appreciation for the person in a way that anything else wouldn't. "$NAME was $COMPANY's first intern, and went on to stay with $COMPANY for eighteen years. We thank $NAME for $GENDEREDPOSSESSIVE years of service." would feel soulless, as if she didn't know the person at all. It's the sort of obituary a VP at Apple might get; named, but essentially anonymous. A form letter, without any actual sense of appreciation or understanding. I don't particularly like Mitchell's handling of Mozilla, but this obituary is one I'd like to have for myself. It's written in a manner that politely disagrees with the subject while acknowledging perceived harms, in a way that's not dissimilar to his own views on how ideas should be addressed while not falling into the trap of modern pluralism (the acceptance of all beliefs as equally valid) which he personally thought to be harmful.[1] It's a remarkable obituary for what seems like an intensely bright human who was openly disagreeable. [1] https://gerv.net/writings/three-forms-of-diversity/ https://gerv.net/writings/three-forms-of-diversity/

latency-guy2 3y ago
I think it's because you agree with Baker's positions that you're more willing to not see her statements as in poor taste. On the other side where I am, it is a bitch slap and a half. It is very clear to me that Baker actively detests Markham even past his death. That's fine. I also detest people that are long dead. But this blog post is not really something that I would call "good", it truly reads to me as a very bitter person goading about, not a final ribbing between friends. Don't treat something like this as 'remarkable', that's dulling the word.
- caslon 3y ago
  I think that you're actually the one who disagrees with Gerv; as he notes in his writings, a society where all views are seen as equally correct is bad. It's not wrong to draw a line and say, "This person is wrong about this," and it's not a sign of detesting someone; to quote him, distinctions have to be made. You are, ironically, the one completely disagreeing with him, pushing ideological diversity. I don't see the post as a "bitch slap" to him, despite more or less disagreeing with Mitchell's views, but it's probably a "bitch slap" to you.
  - latency-guy2 3y ago
    > I think that you're actually the one who disagrees with Gerv I make no judgement on Markham's thoughts on the matter. If I am or not is probably the position you should take, but its not one I'm pushing here. Words presented by Baker are not words I would like from someone I respect, 8 days after my death, just enough tact to know not do it within the first week before the man is decaying in the ground, not enough to think about what people will think of the person that's still alive afterwards. > but it's probably a "bitch slap" to you. Yes, I state it as much, there is no statistical uncertainty here on my end. There is no allegations or false journalistic integrity to take credence to. The man is dead, there is no rebuttal. Baker took her final words and danced on his grave with it, figuratively, I can't be certain if she was in attendance or will be sometime in the future. > You are, ironically, the one completely disagreeing with him, pushing ideological diversity. If I am, then I suppose it. I'll leave this here as an address to your view here: > It's not wrong to draw a line and say, "This person is wrong about this," and it's not a sign of detesting someone Would you honestly say that someone being described in the following way is not a clear line: "Eventually Gerv felt called to live his faith by publicly judging others in politely stated but damning terms. His contributions to expanding the Mozilla community would eventually become shadowed by behaviors that made it more difficult for people to participate. But in 2001 all of this was far in the future." All he's done, shadowed?
jacquesm 3y ago
To me it reads like a final backstabbing against someone who held diametrically opposing views and who no longer has the ability to talk back. If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. Fully half of the sentences in that obituary list his shortcomings, if that's your attitude then you should refrain from writing an obituary. You don't have to lionize the person or turn it into a hagiography but at the same time you don't have to use it as an opportunity to have the final word and to highlight once more to a much larger audience why you really didn't like someone and why someone didn't fit your view of Mozilla.

by caslon 3y ago

latency-guy2 3y ago

I think it's because you agree with Baker's positions that you're more willing to not see her statements as in poor taste. On the other side where I am, it is a bitch slap and a half. It is very clear to me that Baker actively detests Markham even past his death. That's fine. I also detest people that are long dead. But this blog post is not really something that I would call "good", it truly reads to me as a very bitter person goading about, not a final ribbing between friends. Don't treat something like this as 'remarkable', that's dulling the word.

caslon 3y ago
I think that you're actually the one who disagrees with Gerv; as he notes in his writings, a society where all views are seen as equally correct is bad. It's not wrong to draw a line and say, "This person is wrong about this," and it's not a sign of detesting someone; to quote him, distinctions have to be made. You are, ironically, the one completely disagreeing with him, pushing ideological diversity. I don't see the post as a "bitch slap" to him, despite more or less disagreeing with Mitchell's views, but it's probably a "bitch slap" to you.
- latency-guy2 3y ago
  > I think that you're actually the one who disagrees with Gerv I make no judgement on Markham's thoughts on the matter. If I am or not is probably the position you should take, but its not one I'm pushing here. Words presented by Baker are not words I would like from someone I respect, 8 days after my death, just enough tact to know not do it within the first week before the man is decaying in the ground, not enough to think about what people will think of the person that's still alive afterwards. > but it's probably a "bitch slap" to you. Yes, I state it as much, there is no statistical uncertainty here on my end. There is no allegations or false journalistic integrity to take credence to. The man is dead, there is no rebuttal. Baker took her final words and danced on his grave with it, figuratively, I can't be certain if she was in attendance or will be sometime in the future. > You are, ironically, the one completely disagreeing with him, pushing ideological diversity. If I am, then I suppose it. I'll leave this here as an address to your view here: > It's not wrong to draw a line and say, "This person is wrong about this," and it's not a sign of detesting someone Would you honestly say that someone being described in the following way is not a clear line: "Eventually Gerv felt called to live his faith by publicly judging others in politely stated but damning terms. His contributions to expanding the Mozilla community would eventually become shadowed by behaviors that made it more difficult for people to participate. But in 2001 all of this was far in the future." All he's done, shadowed?

jacquesm 3y ago

To me it reads like a final backstabbing against someone who held diametrically opposing views and who no longer has the ability to talk back. If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. Fully half of the sentences in that obituary list his shortcomings, if that's your attitude then you should refrain from writing an obituary. You don't have to lionize the person or turn it into a hagiography but at the same time you don't have to use it as an opportunity to have the final word and to highlight once more to a much larger audience why you really didn't like someone and why someone didn't fit your view of Mozilla.