5 ms·

PWAs seems like can do a whole lot. What is it that they can't do these days? I am pretty confused as to why someone would even make a native app for 99% of ap

PWAs seems like can do a whole lot. What is it that they can't do these days? I am pretty confused as to why someone would even make a native app for 99% of applications these days when you can make a PWA/Capacitor app that runs on web/android/ios all in one codebase. Even mobile games can be run on your browser on mobile, so I am not convinced the native performance is an issue at all.

candiddevmike 3y ago
Biggest ones for me: - Password Manager APIs - Notification channels - Share Targets (Android supports this, kind of) - Widgets
- kevincox 3y ago
  > Share Targets (Android supports this, kind of) * Chrome on Android supports that.
  - philip1209 3y ago
    I think iOS supports it, too: navigator.share({ title, text, url: url })
    - candiddevmike 3y ago
      Doesn't look like it: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Manifest/share_target#browser_compatibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Manifest/share_...
    - kevincox 3y ago
      I think the OP was talking about the opposite API. Being able to share to a PWA from other apps on the system.
- jwells89 3y ago
  To add a few: - Ability to stay in memory for longer due to lower consumption - Less weirdness with navigation - More “solid” feel (less layout shifting, “flashes”, etc) - More good practices on the default/happy path (less UX to have to think about and import libraries for)
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    > - Less weirdness with navigation > - More “solid” feel (less layout shifting, “flashes”, etc) These are the result of the frameworks chosen, not PWAs themselves. Flutter PWAs are always going to be slow and weird, but there are some real gems out there that feel and navigate like native apps. One annoying issue: Android and iOS have different standards for things like scrolling, animations, gestures, and whatnot. Apps like Voyager (https://vger.app/ https://vger.app/) feel like native on my phone, except that something feels off because of the iOS behaviour.
    - jwells89 3y ago
      Might be missing something here, but shouldn’t native scrolling behavior be obtainable by just letting the browser do its thing instead of manually managing it?
      - jeroenhd 3y ago
        Only partially, as far as I understand it. To get the "native" scroll on iOS, you need to add a line or two of CSS (-webkit-overflow-scrolling) here and there. It's harder on the slower frameworks (Flutter etc.) where you're basically running a Javascript browser engine inside your browser, so you need to implement that behaviour manually (which usually means "wrongly"). Implementing native back button behaviour is more annoying, requiring you to hook into the browser navigation mechanism.
  - candiddevmike 3y ago
    Shameless plug: my app Homechart (https://web.homechart.app https://web.homechart.app) doesn't really have those issues (uses Mithril and extremely limited dependencies).
CodesInChaos 3y ago
> Capacitor Those should have access to all features of a native app, since they are native apps containing a webview. Even if that requires some platform specific code, that's still better than completely platform specific code. For games on the other hand, your engine should handle most of the work supporting different platforms natively, so using a native build probably makes sense for games distributed via appstores.
jmkni 3y ago
The biggest one for me is that customers understand Apps. ie, if you have an App on the App Store, there's no explaining to do to the end user. Everybody with a smartphone has installed an app at some point in the past decade, they get it. Once you move away from that and are having to explain to the user what a PWA is, that it's really the same as an App, just pin it to your home screen, etc etc, you just lose people.
- amadeuspagel 3y ago
  Maybe you don't need to explain it that way? Maybe it's enough to say: It's a website, you can pin it to your homescreen, it will open in fullscreen mode ...
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    But saying "it's a website" implies that you need internet connectivity to use it. That's not necessarily a requirement for PWAs.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      the mental step that is missing is that we can build "websites" that don't need internet connectivity. this is not a new feature, and not a mobile specific one either. somehow we need to promote the concept of offline websites. or of downloadable webapps. "click here to install this application on your desktop. it will then work offline just like any other application"
      - rezonant 3y ago
        Though a website in the browser can be offline, maybe the simplest call to action would be "Use MySite offline by adding it to your home screen"
- andoando 3y ago
  True for pwa but Capacitor is just an app on the App Store.
kyleee 3y ago
PWAs cannot be a share target, and on iOS so many things are done through the share many sending whatever data/image/etc. from one place to a different app. It’s a core computing paradigm on iOS and PWAs are shut out of it. Biggest blocker for me right now
Turing_Machine 3y ago
> PWAs seems like can do a whole lot. What is it that they can't do these days? A pretty good summary was posted here the other day: https://whatpwacando.today/ https://whatpwacando.today/ > I am pretty confused as to why someone would even make a native app for 99% of applications The install experience with PWAs is still shite. Also, the last time I checked, every browser puts the apps in a different folder on desktops, and there's no central screen that shows you ever PWA you have installed. It's hard to even find them later. For example, on the Mac, the PWA on the above page doesn't install at all with Brave in the default configuration. There's not even an error message. Safari installs it to the Dock, not the "home screen", and so on. PWAs are cool as hell, but the whole install process needs to be thrown away and rewritten from scratch.
ksec 3y ago
1. Battery Usage - Native Apps are still better. 2. Until You can have single button Add PWA and install on Homescreen. Current PWA is still too difficult for average consumer to understand. 3. As much as I want many more PWAs, they are still not buttery smooth as Native.

candiddevmike 3y ago

Biggest ones for me: - Password Manager APIs - Notification channels - Share Targets (Android supports this, kind of) - Widgets

kevincox 3y ago
> Share Targets (Android supports this, kind of) * Chrome on Android supports that.
- philip1209 3y ago
  I think iOS supports it, too: navigator.share({ title, text, url: url })
  - candiddevmike 3y ago
    Doesn't look like it: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Manifest/share_target#browser_compatibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Manifest/share_...
  - kevincox 3y ago
    I think the OP was talking about the opposite API. Being able to share to a PWA from other apps on the system.
jwells89 3y ago
To add a few: - Ability to stay in memory for longer due to lower consumption - Less weirdness with navigation - More “solid” feel (less layout shifting, “flashes”, etc) - More good practices on the default/happy path (less UX to have to think about and import libraries for)
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  > - Less weirdness with navigation > - More “solid” feel (less layout shifting, “flashes”, etc) These are the result of the frameworks chosen, not PWAs themselves. Flutter PWAs are always going to be slow and weird, but there are some real gems out there that feel and navigate like native apps. One annoying issue: Android and iOS have different standards for things like scrolling, animations, gestures, and whatnot. Apps like Voyager (https://vger.app/ https://vger.app/) feel like native on my phone, except that something feels off because of the iOS behaviour.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    Might be missing something here, but shouldn’t native scrolling behavior be obtainable by just letting the browser do its thing instead of manually managing it?
    - jeroenhd 3y ago
      Only partially, as far as I understand it. To get the "native" scroll on iOS, you need to add a line or two of CSS (-webkit-overflow-scrolling) here and there. It's harder on the slower frameworks (Flutter etc.) where you're basically running a Javascript browser engine inside your browser, so you need to implement that behaviour manually (which usually means "wrongly"). Implementing native back button behaviour is more annoying, requiring you to hook into the browser navigation mechanism.
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  Shameless plug: my app Homechart (https://web.homechart.app https://web.homechart.app) doesn't really have those issues (uses Mithril and extremely limited dependencies).

CodesInChaos 3y ago

> Capacitor Those should have access to all features of a native app, since they are native apps containing a webview. Even if that requires some platform specific code, that's still better than completely platform specific code. For games on the other hand, your engine should handle most of the work supporting different platforms natively, so using a native build probably makes sense for games distributed via appstores.

jmkni 3y ago

The biggest one for me is that customers understand Apps. ie, if you have an App on the App Store, there's no explaining to do to the end user. Everybody with a smartphone has installed an app at some point in the past decade, they get it. Once you move away from that and are having to explain to the user what a PWA is, that it's really the same as an App, just pin it to your home screen, etc etc, you just lose people.

amadeuspagel 3y ago
Maybe you don't need to explain it that way? Maybe it's enough to say: It's a website, you can pin it to your homescreen, it will open in fullscreen mode ...
- JohnFen 3y ago
  But saying "it's a website" implies that you need internet connectivity to use it. That's not necessarily a requirement for PWAs.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    the mental step that is missing is that we can build "websites" that don't need internet connectivity. this is not a new feature, and not a mobile specific one either. somehow we need to promote the concept of offline websites. or of downloadable webapps. "click here to install this application on your desktop. it will then work offline just like any other application"
    - rezonant 3y ago
      Though a website in the browser can be offline, maybe the simplest call to action would be "Use MySite offline by adding it to your home screen"
andoando 3y ago
True for pwa but Capacitor is just an app on the App Store.

kyleee 3y ago

PWAs cannot be a share target, and on iOS so many things are done through the share many sending whatever data/image/etc. from one place to a different app. It’s a core computing paradigm on iOS and PWAs are shut out of it. Biggest blocker for me right now

Turing_Machine 3y ago

> PWAs seems like can do a whole lot. What is it that they can't do these days? A pretty good summary was posted here the other day: https://whatpwacando.today/ https://whatpwacando.today/ > I am pretty confused as to why someone would even make a native app for 99% of applications The install experience with PWAs is still shite. Also, the last time I checked, every browser puts the apps in a different folder on desktops, and there's no central screen that shows you ever PWA you have installed. It's hard to even find them later. For example, on the Mac, the PWA on the above page doesn't install at all with Brave in the default configuration. There's not even an error message. Safari installs it to the Dock, not the "home screen", and so on. PWAs are cool as hell, but the whole install process needs to be thrown away and rewritten from scratch.

ksec 3y ago

1. Battery Usage - Native Apps are still better. 2. Until You can have single button Add PWA and install on Homescreen. Current PWA is still too difficult for average consumer to understand. 3. As much as I want many more PWAs, they are still not buttery smooth as Native.