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Apple Vision Pro review: Eyes on the future

27 points by CharlesW 3y ago

dt3ft 3y ago
> And the Vision Pro leaves me with no doubt that this device’s display—two separate tiny OLED displays, each of 4K-ish resolution, one for each eye—is the absolute best on the planet in a consumer device. What is the actual resolution on this device and pixel density? How does it compare to Valve index? Can you still see individual pixels if you look for them?
- testfrequency 3y ago
  https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2-whats-the-display-resolution https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2... It’s very difficult to spot individual pixels. I arguably only notice if I bring a 3D render very close to my eyes, but generally speaking - it’s not worse/better than a regular 4K display
- rmorey 3y ago
  Ifixit did a great job figuring this out: https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2 https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2... > the lit area totals 3660 px by 3200 px > The Vision Pro comes in at a stunning 3,386 PPI Though PPD (pixels per degree) is really what you want to measure here: > With a rough measurement of 100° FOV (Field of View), we estimate the Vision Pro to have an average of 34 PD. In comparison, a 65″ 4K TV viewed 6.5 feet away is 95 average PPD Valve index is ~14 PPD and Quest 3 is ~25 PPD as per https://vr-compare.com https://vr-compare.com
  - isametry 3y ago
    The rest of that paragraph from iFixit: > the iPhone 15 Pro Max held 1 foot away is 94 average PPD. Even though the pixel density and physical dimensions are drastically different between the iPhone and the 65” TV, they end up having similar PPD simply because of how they’re viewed. (I personally found the phone example much more useful than the TV, possibly because I don't own a TV.) For more examples: a modern MacBook Air viewed at 60 cm (2 ft) gives you the exact same value. With a MacBook Pro, it's somewhat more at 108 PPD. An 11" iPad (10th gen / Air / Pro) comes out at 83 PPD viewed from 45 cm / ~18in. (I suppose the midpoint between phone and laptop seems like a reasonable iPad viewing distance?)
- joshstrange 3y ago
  > Can you still see individual pixels if you look for them? I could not. The passthrough is slightly grainy and "smears" a bit when you move your head but the displays themselves are amazing. I couldn't see pixels when I ran native visionOS apps. The Mac Virtual Display is slightly blurry but again, that wasn't the fault of the displays as evidenced by the sharp UI of AVP apps.
- chaostheory 3y ago
  It’s way better than the Index resolution wise, and there is no screen door effect. Then again even the Quest 3 is better now since the Index is so ancient. There are two main issues with the visuals though: 1. Poor vertical FOV 2. Motion blurring whenever you move which is likely due to the OLED screens You can’t use this on Steam until we get Virtual desktop on the Vision Pro. Not sure how well it would work though since the blur is not great unless you mostly play sim games.
robg 3y ago
I think Apple made the right trade-off here, but the external battery seems like the feature of the Vision Pro that will make us look back from the future and shake our heads. Maybe I’m dense but I don’t really understand this jump to [shakes hands like Doc Brown] “the future”. We’re in Magic Leap’s future right now, how did the physics and battery constraints turn out for them? How do you let people wearing VR goggles on their faces participate in videoconferences? Me being dense again: Why is this a necessary use case? It seems pointlessly complicated when taking the thing off is easy or just make calls audio only. What will the Persona ever add?
- haswell 3y ago
  Regarding personas: one of the things that excites me about AVP is the potential for true remote collaboration and brainstorming, where everyone involved can interact with virtual whiteboards and co-explore designs. I don’t think that just joining a Zoom as a normal participant makes much sense, but I would love the ability to hop into a virtual space with someone to sketch out ideas and designs while still having some kind of personal connection/interaction. The difficulty accomplishing this with existing tools is what justified the hefty travel budget I had to go work in-person with teams during certain stages of product design as a product manager. I think the feature has a long way to go to meet this need based on the early demos.
  - robg 3y ago
    Doesn’t gaming enable group collaboration with just voices? What makes the floating headface compelling to the experience?
    - haswell 3y ago
      Brainstorming and product planning/design sits in an entirely different category than gaming. The needs of gaming don’t really compare. I don’t think floating head faces are compelling nor do I think it represents Apple’s ultimate goal. This is why I concluded with: > I think the feature has a long way to go to meet this need based on the early demos. If they can make the headfaces convincing enough to enable reasonably good eye contact and to portray an accurate representation of facial expressions/emotions, it will make certain kinds of on-site collaboration where such things matter less necessary. If they can extend this to convincing whole-body avatars, the utility skyrockets.
joshstrange 3y ago
Excellent review of the device that doesn't pull any punches and isn't dripping with honey. I found [0-2] the AVP to be an excellent piece of hardware that is unfortunately limited by software, a common refrain for Apple's iOS/iPad OS. I have no doubt that I will buy a future version of this device as the software gets better, the cameras/passthrough improves, the price drops, and/or the software allowed to run is opened up. I absolutely loved playing with the AVP but right now it's just an infinite-screen iPad with window management. I can't work on an iPad and likewise I can't work in this. "Mac Virtual Display!" I hear you screaming, and while impressive, the blurriness of the MVD is something I can't put up with, especially while I have 3 external monitors available to me. If I traveled more and/or only used the laptop screen I might feel differently but I don't. So for now I will probably return mine unless some "killer app" comes out before my return window closes. I applaud Apple for releasing this now though, it's not fully fleshed out but it won't be until 3rd party developers are able to use it and get a feel for how best to build apps for it. Right now the AVP is a dev kit++ in my eyes. [0] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/03/apple-vision-pro-first-impressions/ https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/03/apple-vision-pro-first-im... [1] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/04/apple-vision-pro-writing-code/ https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/04/apple-vision-pro-writing-... [2] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/05/apple-vision-pro-or-4k/ https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/05/apple-vision-pro-or-4k/
_ugfj 3y ago
Oh yes, I have my eyes on the future. It ain't the cheery future described by Extremely Online (although even that book mentions the ugly but not enough, not by far). Not, it's the future of platform decay (to use a more polite word for enshittification) and Stop Talking to Each Other and Start Buying Things https://catvalente.substack.com/p/stop-talking-to-each-other-and-start https://catvalente.substack.com/p/stop-talking-to-each-other... To be closer to topic , let me quote Paris Marx's excellent summary from his Apple Vision Pro preview https://disconnect.blog/apples-vision-pro-headset-deserves/ https://disconnect.blog/apples-vision-pro-headset-deserves/ > Tech companies want us isolated and constantly staring at screens because it drives profit and of course > The Vision Pro lets users further separate themselves from their surroundings and even create “digital personas” for video calls so other people are talking to a digital, abstracted version of themselves instead of seeing the real person. Even The Verge acknowledges: > using the Vision Pro is such a lonely experience, regardless of the weird ghost eyes on the front. Oh yes, I have my eyes on the future and I am bloody unhappy about it.
davidy123 3y ago
In contrast to another comment, I found this review rather over the top in romanticism. "Newly-shipped OSes just have a certain special something about them" - aka bugs. I get the reminiscing angle (though I think it's not the best thing to dwell on) but people should be asking whether they will use this device, and at its current weight and cost and (literal) hand-waving utility, it really doesn't seem very compelling to anyone but a VR/AR/3D enthusiast or a developer, unless maybe the virtual monitor experience becomes very good, but then comments on long term comfort are mixed. I have a Quest Pro which I pull out from time to time, I don't regret the exploration opportunity, but this kind of device is currently just confining and awkward. The Vision Pro is even heavier, with their questionable use of aluminum it really seems they target collectors rather than comfort, which is odd in an age of e-waste consciousness. For many people, it basically seems like a "treat" for those with excess wealth since nobody really describes it as useful like a computer or phone. I have no doubt Apple (among others) anticipates a world where super high resolution sensor laden headsets are lightweight and much less expensive. It really seems more sensible as a peripheral, though I know that goes against their DNA as one device for every category.
xnx 3y ago
I've read a lot of reviews of the Apple Vision Pro and I don't think I've seen any talk about how the killer app for this could be virtual tours. I've been amazed by the sense of presence I've gotten from 3D as simple as Google Cardboard. A high fidelity 360 visit to a museum, nature park, or city (even if it had to be "on rails") could be amazing.
kellieseach50 3y ago
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27 points by CharlesW 3y ago

> And the Vision Pro leaves me with no doubt that this device’s display—two separate tiny OLED displays, each of 4K-ish resolution, one for each eye—is the absolute best on the planet in a consumer device. What is the actual resolution on this device and pixel density? How does it compare to Valve index? Can you still see individual pixels if you look for them?

testfrequency 3y ago
https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2-whats-the-display-resolution https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2... It’s very difficult to spot individual pixels. I arguably only notice if I bring a 3D render very close to my eyes, but generally speaking - it’s not worse/better than a regular 4K display
rmorey 3y ago
Ifixit did a great job figuring this out: https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2 https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2... > the lit area totals 3660 px by 3200 px > The Vision Pro comes in at a stunning 3,386 PPI Though PPD (pixels per degree) is really what you want to measure here: > With a rough measurement of 100° FOV (Field of View), we estimate the Vision Pro to have an average of 34 PD. In comparison, a 65″ 4K TV viewed 6.5 feet away is 95 average PPD Valve index is ~14 PPD and Quest 3 is ~25 PPD as per https://vr-compare.com https://vr-compare.com
- isametry 3y ago
  The rest of that paragraph from iFixit: > the iPhone 15 Pro Max held 1 foot away is 94 average PPD. Even though the pixel density and physical dimensions are drastically different between the iPhone and the 65” TV, they end up having similar PPD simply because of how they’re viewed. (I personally found the phone example much more useful than the TV, possibly because I don't own a TV.) For more examples: a modern MacBook Air viewed at 60 cm (2 ft) gives you the exact same value. With a MacBook Pro, it's somewhat more at 108 PPD. An 11" iPad (10th gen / Air / Pro) comes out at 83 PPD viewed from 45 cm / ~18in. (I suppose the midpoint between phone and laptop seems like a reasonable iPad viewing distance?)
joshstrange 3y ago
> Can you still see individual pixels if you look for them? I could not. The passthrough is slightly grainy and "smears" a bit when you move your head but the displays themselves are amazing. I couldn't see pixels when I ran native visionOS apps. The Mac Virtual Display is slightly blurry but again, that wasn't the fault of the displays as evidenced by the sharp UI of AVP apps.
chaostheory 3y ago
It’s way better than the Index resolution wise, and there is no screen door effect. Then again even the Quest 3 is better now since the Index is so ancient. There are two main issues with the visuals though: 1. Poor vertical FOV 2. Motion blurring whenever you move which is likely due to the OLED screens You can’t use this on Steam until we get Virtual desktop on the Vision Pro. Not sure how well it would work though since the blur is not great unless you mostly play sim games.

robg 3y ago

I think Apple made the right trade-off here, but the external battery seems like the feature of the Vision Pro that will make us look back from the future and shake our heads. Maybe I’m dense but I don’t really understand this jump to [shakes hands like Doc Brown] “the future”. We’re in Magic Leap’s future right now, how did the physics and battery constraints turn out for them? How do you let people wearing VR goggles on their faces participate in videoconferences? Me being dense again: Why is this a necessary use case? It seems pointlessly complicated when taking the thing off is easy or just make calls audio only. What will the Persona ever add?

haswell 3y ago
Regarding personas: one of the things that excites me about AVP is the potential for true remote collaboration and brainstorming, where everyone involved can interact with virtual whiteboards and co-explore designs. I don’t think that just joining a Zoom as a normal participant makes much sense, but I would love the ability to hop into a virtual space with someone to sketch out ideas and designs while still having some kind of personal connection/interaction. The difficulty accomplishing this with existing tools is what justified the hefty travel budget I had to go work in-person with teams during certain stages of product design as a product manager. I think the feature has a long way to go to meet this need based on the early demos.
- robg 3y ago
  Doesn’t gaming enable group collaboration with just voices? What makes the floating headface compelling to the experience?
  - haswell 3y ago
    Brainstorming and product planning/design sits in an entirely different category than gaming. The needs of gaming don’t really compare. I don’t think floating head faces are compelling nor do I think it represents Apple’s ultimate goal. This is why I concluded with: > I think the feature has a long way to go to meet this need based on the early demos. If they can make the headfaces convincing enough to enable reasonably good eye contact and to portray an accurate representation of facial expressions/emotions, it will make certain kinds of on-site collaboration where such things matter less necessary. If they can extend this to convincing whole-body avatars, the utility skyrockets.

joshstrange 3y ago

Excellent review of the device that doesn't pull any punches and isn't dripping with honey. I found [0-2] the AVP to be an excellent piece of hardware that is unfortunately limited by software, a common refrain for Apple's iOS/iPad OS. I have no doubt that I will buy a future version of this device as the software gets better, the cameras/passthrough improves, the price drops, and/or the software allowed to run is opened up. I absolutely loved playing with the AVP but right now it's just an infinite-screen iPad with window management. I can't work on an iPad and likewise I can't work in this. "Mac Virtual Display!" I hear you screaming, and while impressive, the blurriness of the MVD is something I can't put up with, especially while I have 3 external monitors available to me. If I traveled more and/or only used the laptop screen I might feel differently but I don't. So for now I will probably return mine unless some "killer app" comes out before my return window closes. I applaud Apple for releasing this now though, it's not fully fleshed out but it won't be until 3rd party developers are able to use it and get a feel for how best to build apps for it. Right now the AVP is a dev kit++ in my eyes. [0] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/03/apple-vision-pro-first-impressions/ https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/03/apple-vision-pro-first-im... [1] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/04/apple-vision-pro-writing-code/ https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/04/apple-vision-pro-writing-... [2] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/05/apple-vision-pro-or-4k/ https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/05/apple-vision-pro-or-4k/

_ugfj 3y ago

Oh yes, I have my eyes on the future. It ain't the cheery future described by Extremely Online (although even that book mentions the ugly but not enough, not by far). Not, it's the future of platform decay (to use a more polite word for enshittification) and Stop Talking to Each Other and Start Buying Things https://catvalente.substack.com/p/stop-talking-to-each-other-and-start https://catvalente.substack.com/p/stop-talking-to-each-other... To be closer to topic , let me quote Paris Marx's excellent summary from his Apple Vision Pro preview https://disconnect.blog/apples-vision-pro-headset-deserves/ https://disconnect.blog/apples-vision-pro-headset-deserves/ > Tech companies want us isolated and constantly staring at screens because it drives profit and of course > The Vision Pro lets users further separate themselves from their surroundings and even create “digital personas” for video calls so other people are talking to a digital, abstracted version of themselves instead of seeing the real person. Even The Verge acknowledges: > using the Vision Pro is such a lonely experience, regardless of the weird ghost eyes on the front. Oh yes, I have my eyes on the future and I am bloody unhappy about it.

davidy123 3y ago

In contrast to another comment, I found this review rather over the top in romanticism. "Newly-shipped OSes just have a certain special something about them" - aka bugs. I get the reminiscing angle (though I think it's not the best thing to dwell on) but people should be asking whether they will use this device, and at its current weight and cost and (literal) hand-waving utility, it really doesn't seem very compelling to anyone but a VR/AR/3D enthusiast or a developer, unless maybe the virtual monitor experience becomes very good, but then comments on long term comfort are mixed. I have a Quest Pro which I pull out from time to time, I don't regret the exploration opportunity, but this kind of device is currently just confining and awkward. The Vision Pro is even heavier, with their questionable use of aluminum it really seems they target collectors rather than comfort, which is odd in an age of e-waste consciousness. For many people, it basically seems like a "treat" for those with excess wealth since nobody really describes it as useful like a computer or phone. I have no doubt Apple (among others) anticipates a world where super high resolution sensor laden headsets are lightweight and much less expensive. It really seems more sensible as a peripheral, though I know that goes against their DNA as one device for every category.

xnx 3y ago

I've read a lot of reviews of the Apple Vision Pro and I don't think I've seen any talk about how the killer app for this could be virtual tours. I've been amazed by the sense of presence I've gotten from 3D as simple as Google Cardboard. A high fidelity 360 visit to a museum, nature park, or city (even if it had to be "on rails") could be amazing.

kellieseach50 3y ago

[dead]