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I tried to parse a little of this so, FinCEN wants to know who profits off of real estate if you are a 5% equity share holder or 10% if at a director level in a

I tried to parse a little of this so, FinCEN wants to know who profits off of real estate if you are a 5% equity share holder or 10% if at a director level in an organization. Will FinCEN publish these records? It would defeat the purpose of putting a home in an llc for anonymity. Under the proposed rule, persons involved in real estate closings and settlements would continue to be exempt from the anti-money laundering compliance program requirements of the Bank Secrecy Act. I.e. loans, banks.

deleted 3y ago
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mikeyouse 3y ago
The records aren't publicly available - they'll provide them to the Feds and to anyone who provides a valid court order; https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fact-sheet-beneficial-ownership-information-access-and-safeguards-final-rule#:~:text=FinCEN%20may%20disclose%20BOI%20to%20State%2C%20local%2C%20and%20Tribal%20law,a%20criminal%20or%20civil%20investigation https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fact-sheet-benefic....
- gottorf 3y ago
  > they'll provide them to the Feds That's too bad; methinks the Feds should also need a court order. Though, I suppose with FISA courts rubber-stamping warrants, it wouldn't even be a nuisance.
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    Depends on your level of cynicism whether they'll follow the guardrails, but they do have some; > Federal government agency access to BOI. Under the Access Rule and as authorized by the CTA, FinCEN may disclose BOI to Federal agencies engaged in national security, intelligence, or law enforcement activity if the requested BOI is for use in furtherance of such activity. “Law enforcement activity” includes both criminal and civil investigations and actions, such as actions to impose civil penalties, civil forfeiture actions, and civil enforcement through administrative proceedings. Prior to requesting BOI, Federal agency users will be required to certify that the agency is engaged in a national security, intelligence, or law enforcement activity and that the information requested is for use in furtherance of that activity. They will also be required to provide the specific reasons why the requested information is relevant to the activity.
neilv 3y ago
> It would defeat the purpose of putting a home in an llc for anonymity. That's a legitimate desire, and I think we should make privacy and the motives behind it available to everyone, not only those who can afford the expense and effort to set up and maintain an LLC. (I'd expect the solution to be a combination of changes: outlaw most data-brokering and trading of personal data, hold organizations responsible for the data they hold so much that they treat unnecessary personal data like an existential-threat toxic liability, change practices to make SWAT-ing not be such a risk even if some psycho did get hold of someone's address, hold demagogues responsible for using conspiracy theories they know are false to incite mentally ill people, and more.)
- phkahler 3y ago
  >> It would defeat the purpose of putting a home in an llc for anonymity. > That's a legitimate desire, and I think we should make privacy and the motives behind it available to everyone, not only those who can afford the expense and effort to set up and maintain an LLC. I'm on the fence about that. Why should someone not be able to determine who owns a particular piece of property?
  - lightweb 3y ago
    SWATing. Security concerns for certain people.

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mikeyouse 3y ago

The records aren't publicly available - they'll provide them to the Feds and to anyone who provides a valid court order; https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fact-sheet-beneficial-ownership-information-access-and-safeguards-final-rule#:~:text=FinCEN%20may%20disclose%20BOI%20to%20State%2C%20local%2C%20and%20Tribal%20law,a%20criminal%20or%20civil%20investigation https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fact-sheet-benefic....

gottorf 3y ago
> they'll provide them to the Feds That's too bad; methinks the Feds should also need a court order. Though, I suppose with FISA courts rubber-stamping warrants, it wouldn't even be a nuisance.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  Depends on your level of cynicism whether they'll follow the guardrails, but they do have some; > Federal government agency access to BOI. Under the Access Rule and as authorized by the CTA, FinCEN may disclose BOI to Federal agencies engaged in national security, intelligence, or law enforcement activity if the requested BOI is for use in furtherance of such activity. “Law enforcement activity” includes both criminal and civil investigations and actions, such as actions to impose civil penalties, civil forfeiture actions, and civil enforcement through administrative proceedings. Prior to requesting BOI, Federal agency users will be required to certify that the agency is engaged in a national security, intelligence, or law enforcement activity and that the information requested is for use in furtherance of that activity. They will also be required to provide the specific reasons why the requested information is relevant to the activity.

neilv 3y ago

> It would defeat the purpose of putting a home in an llc for anonymity. That's a legitimate desire, and I think we should make privacy and the motives behind it available to everyone, not only those who can afford the expense and effort to set up and maintain an LLC. (I'd expect the solution to be a combination of changes: outlaw most data-brokering and trading of personal data, hold organizations responsible for the data they hold so much that they treat unnecessary personal data like an existential-threat toxic liability, change practices to make SWAT-ing not be such a risk even if some psycho did get hold of someone's address, hold demagogues responsible for using conspiracy theories they know are false to incite mentally ill people, and more.)

phkahler 3y ago
>> It would defeat the purpose of putting a home in an llc for anonymity. > That's a legitimate desire, and I think we should make privacy and the motives behind it available to everyone, not only those who can afford the expense and effort to set up and maintain an LLC. I'm on the fence about that. Why should someone not be able to determine who owns a particular piece of property?
- lightweb 3y ago
  SWATing. Security concerns for certain people.