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This set of eruptions has already killed one person who fell into one of the cracks in Grindavik and the current lack of hot water could be dangerous if not res

This set of eruptions has already killed one person who fell into one of the cracks in Grindavik and the current lack of hot water could be dangerous if not resolved quickly. My wife’s grandfather is in his mid-80s and is in hospital in Keflavik without hot water and there’s nowhere to move him at the moment, just extra blankets on a day where it’s -6C. So it might seem benign but that’s not the case.

avar 3y ago
The eruption didn't kill that person, gung-ho working practices and the lack of strictly adhering to something like OSHA killed that person. He was working around a newly opened fissure without being clipped into something like a safety harness, which I daresay is standard practice in most of the rest of Europe and the US in similar circumstances. The soil shifted, or he fell. In either case someone directly or indirectly working as a contractor for the government died as a result of unsafe and obviously dangerous work practices. The government then went into overdrive to push the narrative that these fissures were so dangerous in general that they had to evacuate the town immediately. That can also be true, but the immediate cause is needless and dangerous expediency. In the end they fell into shit and came out smelling like roses, because the eruption happened to start a few days later. The issue of that easily preventable death was quickly forgotten by most (but e.g. [1], in Icelandic, raises so some of the same concerns). The evacuation order at the time had nothing to to with an imminent eruption, just the supposed general danger to the public from shifting soil and fissures. Some other eruption in the area was expected eventually, but that it happened so fast came as a surprise. 1. https://heimildin.is/grein/20601/ https://heimildin.is/grein/20601/
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > The eruption didn't kill that person, gung-ho working practices and the lack of strictly adhering to something like OSHA killed that person. The eruption killed them, however it's phrased. I'm aware of the semantic arguments, but it's a mistake to apply them to reality and I'm not going to engage with them with a person dead and more threatened, including the person who posted above! > the immediate cause is needless and dangerous expediency Why should we believe that and not the government?
  - avar 3y ago
    > The eruption killed them There wasn't any eruption at the time. There was ongoing seismic shifting and land uplift, that's why the fissures were forming. It happened to erupt shortly afterwards, but the way these things go that's just happenstance. The geology service did not suspect an imminent eruption at the time of the evacuation. In retrospect it was good that the town was evacuated at the time, and probably the previous evacuation shouldn't have been lifted. I'm just noting the chronology and what was stated and known at the time. > I'm not going to engage with them with a person dead. Well, you'd feel right at home in Iceland, but personally I wish it had more of the US's attitude of mandatory and critical root cause investigations when workplace deaths occur. > Why should we believe that and not the government? I think the facts speak for themselves. Up-thread I linked to an article by a local professor of volcanology basically agreeing with what I'm saying here. It's in Icelandic, but Google Translate does a decent job of it if you're interested.
- lazyasciiart 3y ago
  You seem to be making quite a weak argument here: that the government made up a threat that just happened to be real.
  - avar 3y ago
    The stated argument for evacuating the town was that due to ongoing seismic shifts. New fissures were opening regularly, and that these presented an unacceptable danger to public safety. I'm pointing out that it's at best a very convenient omission that the evacuation wasn't happening due to that scenario. Nobody randomly fell into a fissure by accident. That person and others were being directed to work adjacent to and in these fissures. It's an on-the-clock workplace accident due to grossly inadequate safety practices. We're not talking about some obscure inconsequential OSHA rule here. A lot of things have to go systemically wrong to have someone working alone at an unsecured edge without a teather.
nottorp 3y ago
So when they say 'without hot water' they actually mean 'without heating'? For someone who isn't in Iceland that's not clear.
- avar 3y ago
  Yes, it's being lost in translation. The notion that you might heat a house with electricity or by setting trees or dinosaurs on fire is so foreign to Icelanders that they don't think this is worth clarifying in the English translation of the news feed. It'll have other long-tail effects, e.g. some people with outdoor hot tubs in the area are probably scrambling to drain them and all their plumbing now. Some rely on constant drip heating to avoid the pipes bursting. Why are outdoor hot tubs full in the first place when it's -10°C (15°F) outside? Well obviously when boiling water practically bubbles out of the ground for free you're going to get in it at scalding temperatures even if you need to dig it out of the snow first. Doesn't that go without saying?
  - samus 3y ago
    I for sure hope they thought about the risk of that infrastructure being damaged. There better be backup heating sources at least for hospitals.
    - avar 3y ago
      In general the backup plan in Iceland is "Well, I guess we're having to wear all this clothing we put on so we don't die of exposure when we venture outside inside the house now.". I think the hospitals have backup diesel electric generators, but in general nobody's got backup heating, except perhaps the odd free-standing electric heater. I don't know, but I'd expect someone at the hospital there is thinking of running those in select places. Icelandic media is now patiently explaining to people the upsides ("yay, heat!") and downsides (you might die) of running the propane gas heaters that have just sold out in enclosed spaces: https://www.ruv.is/frettir/innlent/2024-02-08-ad-ymsu-ad-huga-thegar-gas-er-notad-til-hushitunar-404467 https://www.ruv.is/frettir/innlent/2024-02-08-ad-ymsu-ad-hug...
wolverine876 3y ago
Your grandfather-in-law must be alarmed, already in the hospital. I hope he and your family are safe.

avar 3y ago

The eruption didn't kill that person, gung-ho working practices and the lack of strictly adhering to something like OSHA killed that person. He was working around a newly opened fissure without being clipped into something like a safety harness, which I daresay is standard practice in most of the rest of Europe and the US in similar circumstances. The soil shifted, or he fell. In either case someone directly or indirectly working as a contractor for the government died as a result of unsafe and obviously dangerous work practices. The government then went into overdrive to push the narrative that these fissures were so dangerous in general that they had to evacuate the town immediately. That can also be true, but the immediate cause is needless and dangerous expediency. In the end they fell into shit and came out smelling like roses, because the eruption happened to start a few days later. The issue of that easily preventable death was quickly forgotten by most (but e.g. [1], in Icelandic, raises so some of the same concerns). The evacuation order at the time had nothing to to with an imminent eruption, just the supposed general danger to the public from shifting soil and fissures. Some other eruption in the area was expected eventually, but that it happened so fast came as a surprise. 1. https://heimildin.is/grein/20601/ https://heimildin.is/grein/20601/

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wolverine876 3y ago
> The eruption didn't kill that person, gung-ho working practices and the lack of strictly adhering to something like OSHA killed that person. The eruption killed them, however it's phrased. I'm aware of the semantic arguments, but it's a mistake to apply them to reality and I'm not going to engage with them with a person dead and more threatened, including the person who posted above! > the immediate cause is needless and dangerous expediency Why should we believe that and not the government?
- avar 3y ago
  > The eruption killed them There wasn't any eruption at the time. There was ongoing seismic shifting and land uplift, that's why the fissures were forming. It happened to erupt shortly afterwards, but the way these things go that's just happenstance. The geology service did not suspect an imminent eruption at the time of the evacuation. In retrospect it was good that the town was evacuated at the time, and probably the previous evacuation shouldn't have been lifted. I'm just noting the chronology and what was stated and known at the time. > I'm not going to engage with them with a person dead. Well, you'd feel right at home in Iceland, but personally I wish it had more of the US's attitude of mandatory and critical root cause investigations when workplace deaths occur. > Why should we believe that and not the government? I think the facts speak for themselves. Up-thread I linked to an article by a local professor of volcanology basically agreeing with what I'm saying here. It's in Icelandic, but Google Translate does a decent job of it if you're interested.
lazyasciiart 3y ago
You seem to be making quite a weak argument here: that the government made up a threat that just happened to be real.
- avar 3y ago
  The stated argument for evacuating the town was that due to ongoing seismic shifts. New fissures were opening regularly, and that these presented an unacceptable danger to public safety. I'm pointing out that it's at best a very convenient omission that the evacuation wasn't happening due to that scenario. Nobody randomly fell into a fissure by accident. That person and others were being directed to work adjacent to and in these fissures. It's an on-the-clock workplace accident due to grossly inadequate safety practices. We're not talking about some obscure inconsequential OSHA rule here. A lot of things have to go systemically wrong to have someone working alone at an unsecured edge without a teather.

nottorp 3y ago

So when they say 'without hot water' they actually mean 'without heating'? For someone who isn't in Iceland that's not clear.

avar 3y ago
Yes, it's being lost in translation. The notion that you might heat a house with electricity or by setting trees or dinosaurs on fire is so foreign to Icelanders that they don't think this is worth clarifying in the English translation of the news feed. It'll have other long-tail effects, e.g. some people with outdoor hot tubs in the area are probably scrambling to drain them and all their plumbing now. Some rely on constant drip heating to avoid the pipes bursting. Why are outdoor hot tubs full in the first place when it's -10°C (15°F) outside? Well obviously when boiling water practically bubbles out of the ground for free you're going to get in it at scalding temperatures even if you need to dig it out of the snow first. Doesn't that go without saying?
- samus 3y ago
  I for sure hope they thought about the risk of that infrastructure being damaged. There better be backup heating sources at least for hospitals.
  - avar 3y ago
    In general the backup plan in Iceland is "Well, I guess we're having to wear all this clothing we put on so we don't die of exposure when we venture outside inside the house now.". I think the hospitals have backup diesel electric generators, but in general nobody's got backup heating, except perhaps the odd free-standing electric heater. I don't know, but I'd expect someone at the hospital there is thinking of running those in select places. Icelandic media is now patiently explaining to people the upsides ("yay, heat!") and downsides (you might die) of running the propane gas heaters that have just sold out in enclosed spaces: https://www.ruv.is/frettir/innlent/2024-02-08-ad-ymsu-ad-huga-thegar-gas-er-notad-til-hushitunar-404467 https://www.ruv.is/frettir/innlent/2024-02-08-ad-ymsu-ad-hug...

wolverine876 3y ago

Your grandfather-in-law must be alarmed, already in the hospital. I hope he and your family are safe.