3 ms·

Interesting perspective. They’re instead paid to my retirement investment account and Uncle Sam.

downrightmike 3y ago
Not really, especially if they are left in offshore tax evasion accounts
toomuchtodo 3y ago
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/02/08/case-against-401k-ira-retirement-tax-breaks/72506433007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/02/08/case-against... > The federal government should stop subsidizing pre-tax contributions to retirement savings accounts, two economists from opposing ideological camps argued in a research brief in January. > Allowing people to shelter their retirement money from taxes is a policy that largely favors the well-heeled, they said. Congress could use that money, nearly $200 billion a year in lost tax dollars, to shore up the underfunded Social Security program. People supporting these accounts will put forth "personal responsibility," but the evidence shows that most Americans can't afford to get exposure to the capital markets due to wage stagnation and whatnot, so it's theater vs a real solution. It works for the lucky ones, but most people aren't lucky. Good policy isn't built on luck.
- downrightmike 3y ago
  removing pre-tax retirement contributions really won't do shit to fix American's not saving because the wages are stagnate. You really jumped through some hoops to get there.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Unions and organizing are needed to push wages up [1], admittedly, but tax sheltered retirements aren't helping anyone but a privileged minority (as the paper in the USA Today piece mentions). No hoops required. We tried 401ks and IRAs because it was an easy way to shed pensions and keep those contributes for shareholders, leaving most folks to end up on paltry Social Security benefits. The experiment failed. If you don't see it, you're ignoring the data [2] [3], which I suppose is a choice. [1] https://www.epi.org/publication/eroded-collective-bargaining/ https://www.epi.org/publication/eroded-collective-bargaining... [2] https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-105342 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-105342 [3] https://www.gao.gov/financial-security-older-americans https://www.gao.gov/financial-security-older-americans

Not really, especially if they are left in offshore tax evasion accounts

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/02/08/case-against-401k-ira-retirement-tax-breaks/72506433007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/02/08/case-against... > The federal government should stop subsidizing pre-tax contributions to retirement savings accounts, two economists from opposing ideological camps argued in a research brief in January. > Allowing people to shelter their retirement money from taxes is a policy that largely favors the well-heeled, they said. Congress could use that money, nearly $200 billion a year in lost tax dollars, to shore up the underfunded Social Security program. People supporting these accounts will put forth "personal responsibility," but the evidence shows that most Americans can't afford to get exposure to the capital markets due to wage stagnation and whatnot, so it's theater vs a real solution. It works for the lucky ones, but most people aren't lucky. Good policy isn't built on luck.

downrightmike 3y ago
removing pre-tax retirement contributions really won't do shit to fix American's not saving because the wages are stagnate. You really jumped through some hoops to get there.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Unions and organizing are needed to push wages up [1], admittedly, but tax sheltered retirements aren't helping anyone but a privileged minority (as the paper in the USA Today piece mentions). No hoops required. We tried 401ks and IRAs because it was an easy way to shed pensions and keep those contributes for shareholders, leaving most folks to end up on paltry Social Security benefits. The experiment failed. If you don't see it, you're ignoring the data [2] [3], which I suppose is a choice. [1] https://www.epi.org/publication/eroded-collective-bargaining/ https://www.epi.org/publication/eroded-collective-bargaining... [2] https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-105342 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-105342 [3] https://www.gao.gov/financial-security-older-americans https://www.gao.gov/financial-security-older-americans