3 ms·

It is good to be on guard. Extremism is bad for society, be it left or right leaning. But we shouldn't confuse things. With progressiveness we are talking abou

It is good to be on guard. Extremism is bad for society, be it left or right leaning. But we shouldn't confuse things. With progressiveness we are talking about progress in human and civil rights towards a more free society. It does not mean you have to agree with all policies of them. Authoritarianism is a direct contradiction with progressiveness.

shakow 3y ago
> Authoritarianism is a direct contradiction with progressiveness. Ever heard about this Lenin guy?
- exceptione 3y ago
  Revolutionary `neq` progressive, especially not in our time. If your read up on Lenin and the Revolution no serious human rights advocate today would vouch for that.
  - shakow 3y ago
    But the early USSR was both authoritarian and progressive, with the suppression of nobility privileges, strong improvements to women's rights, legalization of homosexuality, etc. > no serious human rights advocate today would vouch for that. This is close to a no true Scotsman argument; virtually no older-than-30y.o. political movement would check all the boxes to be qualified as such.
    - exceptione 3y ago
      You are right it had progressive elements and some regressive elements, sure!
QuarterReptile 3y ago
'Human progress' would appear to be the most seductive end to justify any means, judging by 20th century.
lazide 3y ago
Hardly. Authoritarianism is what happens when ‘the right things don’t happen’ on their own based on ideology, so they need to be forced. Like seizing farmland from landowners and forming collectives to farm them instead (USSR). Or forcing affirmative action despite no identifiable discriminatory actions. Which is literally openly happening right now in the West in tech and other areas. It’s about forcing reality to confirm to an idealized ‘right’ way, despite objections or resistance - including often ignoring if the final situation/state even works. Example: Chinese Great Leap Forward and rural steel ‘mills’, USSR and collectivism, etc.

shakow 3y ago

> Authoritarianism is a direct contradiction with progressiveness. Ever heard about this Lenin guy?

exceptione 3y ago
Revolutionary `neq` progressive, especially not in our time. If your read up on Lenin and the Revolution no serious human rights advocate today would vouch for that.
- shakow 3y ago
  But the early USSR was both authoritarian and progressive, with the suppression of nobility privileges, strong improvements to women's rights, legalization of homosexuality, etc. > no serious human rights advocate today would vouch for that. This is close to a no true Scotsman argument; virtually no older-than-30y.o. political movement would check all the boxes to be qualified as such.
  - exceptione 3y ago
    You are right it had progressive elements and some regressive elements, sure!

QuarterReptile 3y ago

'Human progress' would appear to be the most seductive end to justify any means, judging by 20th century.

lazide 3y ago

Hardly. Authoritarianism is what happens when ‘the right things don’t happen’ on their own based on ideology, so they need to be forced. Like seizing farmland from landowners and forming collectives to farm them instead (USSR). Or forcing affirmative action despite no identifiable discriminatory actions. Which is literally openly happening right now in the West in tech and other areas. It’s about forcing reality to confirm to an idealized ‘right’ way, despite objections or resistance - including often ignoring if the final situation/state even works. Example: Chinese Great Leap Forward and rural steel ‘mills’, USSR and collectivism, etc.