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Pascal’s wager seems so… idk, unenlightened? If you start from a status quo of feeling comfortable with your obliteration, it sounds kind of ridiculous to ask g

Pascal’s wager seems so… idk, unenlightened? If you start from a status quo of feeling comfortable with your obliteration, it sounds kind of ridiculous to ask god to grant you an eternal life of heaven. Have we not concluded that eternal life begets meaninglessness? Are we really imagining ourselves to be eternally pleasure seeking or revelries entities? Like what does that actually mean? It seems, frankly, more in line with in physical universe western (and other) aesthetics to politely decline going to heaven and instead act according to your personal integrity and humble satisfaction.

mmcdermott 3y ago
> Have we not concluded that eternal life begets meaninglessness? Are we really imagining ourselves to be eternally pleasure seeking or revelries entities? I don't think the majority of humanity (either historically or presently) has concluded that eternal life begets meaninglessness. If anything, that position seems to be the minority. Bear in mind that a transhumanist is striving for eternal life just as much as someone looking forward to a supernatural heaven. I would certainly agree that looking for life to be a long (or even indefinitely long) party is the wrong attitude and that will ultimately lead to emptiness and despair.
vidarh 3y ago
As an atheist, I don't know if I'd say I feel "comfortable" with obliteration. I just don't believe in any evidence suggesting an alternative. If I "woke up" after death and faced some god, you better believe I'd look for a way of avoiding misery. The part of trying to "save" atheists by appealing to a chance for eternal life isn't the problem to me. If Pascal's Wager wasn't logically flawed, then it'd seem a small imposition to try to live accordingly for eternal life. The fatal flaw is that this presumes that you know which deity to placate, and even worse that you know that acting a certain way won't actually piss off a deity instead. And so while I wouldn't decline, I do think acting according to my personal integrity is the best choice I can make absent any evidence of a better course of action, on the basis that if I turn out to have been wrong and there is an afterlife, a deity I could respect would be one that values keeping your integrity over sucking up, and one who is cruel enough to condemn people to misery for not following arbitrary rules would be one I'd be miserable trying to serve anyway, and one worth spending eternity planning rebellion against.

mmcdermott 3y ago

> Have we not concluded that eternal life begets meaninglessness? Are we really imagining ourselves to be eternally pleasure seeking or revelries entities? I don't think the majority of humanity (either historically or presently) has concluded that eternal life begets meaninglessness. If anything, that position seems to be the minority. Bear in mind that a transhumanist is striving for eternal life just as much as someone looking forward to a supernatural heaven. I would certainly agree that looking for life to be a long (or even indefinitely long) party is the wrong attitude and that will ultimately lead to emptiness and despair.

vidarh 3y ago

As an atheist, I don't know if I'd say I feel "comfortable" with obliteration. I just don't believe in any evidence suggesting an alternative. If I "woke up" after death and faced some god, you better believe I'd look for a way of avoiding misery. The part of trying to "save" atheists by appealing to a chance for eternal life isn't the problem to me. If Pascal's Wager wasn't logically flawed, then it'd seem a small imposition to try to live accordingly for eternal life. The fatal flaw is that this presumes that you know which deity to placate, and even worse that you know that acting a certain way won't actually piss off a deity instead. And so while I wouldn't decline, I do think acting according to my personal integrity is the best choice I can make absent any evidence of a better course of action, on the basis that if I turn out to have been wrong and there is an afterlife, a deity I could respect would be one that values keeping your integrity over sucking up, and one who is cruel enough to condemn people to misery for not following arbitrary rules would be one I'd be miserable trying to serve anyway, and one worth spending eternity planning rebellion against.