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> That's clearly politically motivated surveillance of ordinary, peaceful, law-abiding citizens who dissent from the government's views. Peaceful? In Germany,

> That's clearly politically motivated surveillance of ordinary, peaceful, law-abiding citizens who dissent from the government's views. Peaceful? In Germany, a particularly nasty incident made headlines where a drunk farmer tried to evade a roadblock and ended up injuring a policeman [1], just last week two got arrested for attempting to run over cops [2], others spread feces and trash over a highway and lit up barricades [3], and the large demonstration in January in Berlin had over ten arrests for violence as well as explosives [4]. [1] https://www.bild.de/regional/ruhrgebiet/ruhrgebiet-aktuell/bei-demo-in-siegen-bauer-faehrt-mit-trecker-amok-polizist-verletzt-86574782.bild.html https://www.bild.de/regional/ruhrgebiet/ruhrgebiet-aktuell/b... [2] https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersachsen/oldenburg_ostfriesland/Bauernproteste-in-Bremerhaven-eskalieren-Polizei-ermittelt,bremerhaven656.html https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersachsen/oldenburg_ostfr... [3] https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/magdeburg/bauernprotest-demo-randale-guelle-anzeigen102.html https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/magd... [4] https://www.rnd.de/politik/bauernproteste-in-berlin-drei-verletzte-beamte-strafverfahren-und-festnahmen-XFKPMVGO4ZIO3BGFMHF52TVGMM.html https://www.rnd.de/politik/bauernproteste-in-berlin-drei-ver...

mk89 3y ago
Also what happened to the economy minister was not a cool thing to do. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XRpCjLxICKg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XRpCjLxICKg
berkes 3y ago
In the netherlands several of these "protesters" have been rounded up, arrested or otherwise prosecuted. Some later on. Several have been found guilty of breaking the law. Some as young as 17 or 19¹. Regardless of the political view or perspective or stance: they are provably not law-abiding. https://www.rechtspraak.nl/Organisatie-en-contact/Organisatie/Rechtbanken/Rechtbank-Gelderland/Nieuws/Paginas/Broers-veroordeeld-voor-strafbare-feiten-tijdens-boerenprotesten.aspx https://www.rechtspraak.nl/Organisatie-en-contact/Organisati...
wolverine876 3y ago
If that's the worst across multiple countries, it seems very peaceful. Much worse happens in the general public. Are you suggesting that because a few people did things you don't like, everyone involved is violent? That is not only clearly false, but very dangerous.
- lupusreal 3y ago
  You don't understand... these farmers are all kulaks, enemies of the revolution! They're dangerous as a class and need to be treated accordingly.
- lukan 3y ago
  If significant elements of a widespread protest show signs of radicalisation - and there are lots of signs - then it is the job of the police to investigate, how serious and organized the radicals are. Some drunk nuts blowing off steam vs. the beginning of domestic terrorism.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    That justification is used to criminalize and suppress protest and dissent. The GGP didn't show lots of signs, just a few incidents. Where is evidence of 'lots of signs'?
    - lukan 3y ago
      I did not say anything about the police being justified in suppressing legal protest. I said they have the duty to investigate, if there is suspicion of radicalisation. And about signs, in germany the economy ministre could not leave his ferry, because of aggressive protesters. I did not noticed a widespread condemnation of said action by the rest of the protestors. That alone justifies investigation.
      - wolverine876 3y ago
        > I said they have the duty to investigate, if there is suspicion of radicalisation. That is oppression and a tool of oppression, and it's got a long history. > in germany the economy ministre could not leave his ferry, because of aggressive protesters Do you have evidence? And if there were, so what? Why must this law be enforced so utterly? Again, the tools of oppression - 'law and order!'
fransje26 3y ago
Yup. Totally justifies bypassing the law and putting all the farmers under surveillance. > as well as explosives As read: "Verstoß gegen das Sprengstoffgesetz" or, in plain English "A violation of the law on explosives". Which says absolutely nothing, as fireworks would already qualify as explosives if forbidden.

mk89 3y ago

Also what happened to the economy minister was not a cool thing to do. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XRpCjLxICKg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XRpCjLxICKg

berkes 3y ago

In the netherlands several of these "protesters" have been rounded up, arrested or otherwise prosecuted. Some later on. Several have been found guilty of breaking the law. Some as young as 17 or 19¹. Regardless of the political view or perspective or stance: they are provably not law-abiding. https://www.rechtspraak.nl/Organisatie-en-contact/Organisatie/Rechtbanken/Rechtbank-Gelderland/Nieuws/Paginas/Broers-veroordeeld-voor-strafbare-feiten-tijdens-boerenprotesten.aspx https://www.rechtspraak.nl/Organisatie-en-contact/Organisati...

wolverine876 3y ago

If that's the worst across multiple countries, it seems very peaceful. Much worse happens in the general public. Are you suggesting that because a few people did things you don't like, everyone involved is violent? That is not only clearly false, but very dangerous.

lupusreal 3y ago
You don't understand... these farmers are all kulaks, enemies of the revolution! They're dangerous as a class and need to be treated accordingly.
lukan 3y ago
If significant elements of a widespread protest show signs of radicalisation - and there are lots of signs - then it is the job of the police to investigate, how serious and organized the radicals are. Some drunk nuts blowing off steam vs. the beginning of domestic terrorism.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  That justification is used to criminalize and suppress protest and dissent. The GGP didn't show lots of signs, just a few incidents. Where is evidence of 'lots of signs'?
  - lukan 3y ago
    I did not say anything about the police being justified in suppressing legal protest. I said they have the duty to investigate, if there is suspicion of radicalisation. And about signs, in germany the economy ministre could not leave his ferry, because of aggressive protesters. I did not noticed a widespread condemnation of said action by the rest of the protestors. That alone justifies investigation.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      > I said they have the duty to investigate, if there is suspicion of radicalisation. That is oppression and a tool of oppression, and it's got a long history. > in germany the economy ministre could not leave his ferry, because of aggressive protesters Do you have evidence? And if there were, so what? Why must this law be enforced so utterly? Again, the tools of oppression - 'law and order!'

fransje26 3y ago

Yup. Totally justifies bypassing the law and putting all the farmers under surveillance. > as well as explosives As read: "Verstoß gegen das Sprengstoffgesetz" or, in plain English "A violation of the law on explosives". Which says absolutely nothing, as fireworks would already qualify as explosives if forbidden.