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Putin claimed at the beginning of the war that it did not seek any territory from Ukraine (to be fair, nobody really believed him). Annexation of those territor

Putin claimed at the beginning of the war that it did not seek any territory from Ukraine (to be fair, nobody really believed him). Annexation of those territories was thus an increase in the amount of war goals that Russia sought. The referendums were canceled in the wake of the Russian army suffering an embarrassing rout near Kharkiv, and hurriedly rescheduled when it looked like Russia might lose control of Kherson soon--that is, the annexation happened in response not to Russian military success but immediate Russian military failure. The annexation should signal to the world that Russia is not interested in any serious peace settlements. Indeed, it should be a strong signal that Russia is uninterested in acknowledging that its military is not capable of achieving a state that makes concessionless peace deals possible. I will fault Ukraine for many things, but being unwilling to negotiate with someone who will not moderate their goals in line with their ability to achieve them is not one of them.

zmgsabst 3y ago
Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations. > I will fault Ukraine for many things, but being unwilling to negotiate with someone who will not moderate their goals in line with their ability to achieve them is not one of them. This is something Ukraine should consider, after the massive failure of their Sprint/Summer Offensive of 2023. Ukraine needs to moderate their aims in light of their military failures — before the fanaticism leads to their destruction.
- mopsi 3y ago
  > Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations. Taking into account the daily terror raids conducted with artillery and missiles on towns and villages of annexed parts of Ukraine like Kherson, I don't think you'll find many suckers who'll fall for that excuse. If Russian government feels strongly about protecting people, particularly ethnic Russians, they could start by ordering the police not to beat and molest peaceful protesters on the Red Square anymore.
- jcranmer 3y ago
  > Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations. Okay, since you brought this up, I have to know now. How does annexation of that territory protect the inhabitants there, compared to a world where Russia merely occupies the territory? For bonus points, please explain why that offsets the effect it has of lengthening the war (since it makes the Russian and Ukrainian positions more, not less, irreconcilable).

zmgsabst 3y ago

Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations. > I will fault Ukraine for many things, but being unwilling to negotiate with someone who will not moderate their goals in line with their ability to achieve them is not one of them. This is something Ukraine should consider, after the massive failure of their Sprint/Summer Offensive of 2023. Ukraine needs to moderate their aims in light of their military failures — before the fanaticism leads to their destruction.

mopsi 3y ago
> Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations. Taking into account the daily terror raids conducted with artillery and missiles on towns and villages of annexed parts of Ukraine like Kherson, I don't think you'll find many suckers who'll fall for that excuse. If Russian government feels strongly about protecting people, particularly ethnic Russians, they could start by ordering the police not to beat and molest peaceful protesters on the Red Square anymore.
jcranmer 3y ago
> Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations. Okay, since you brought this up, I have to know now. How does annexation of that territory protect the inhabitants there, compared to a world where Russia merely occupies the territory? For bonus points, please explain why that offsets the effect it has of lengthening the war (since it makes the Russian and Ukrainian positions more, not less, irreconcilable).