4 ms·

As an atheist, the simulation argument, or variants about it, is the closest I've come to considering the belief in a "god". I still stick by my atheism on the

by vidarh 3y ago

As an atheist, the simulation argument, or variants about it, is the closest I've come to considering the belief in a "god". I still stick by my atheism on the basis that I don't feel someone simulating us would really meet what we think of as a deity, and in that sense it has even made me see a "god" as less likely, because I'd consider it more likely that if there were to be anything outside our universe it's just more layers of computation, and entities whose power - if any - would be more likely to just be linked to control of a device (the simulator), not inherent to themselves.

williamcotton 3y ago
Which sounds as unlikely as Jesus dying for my sins on the cross, a very strange thing that falls down upon scrutiny, which also happens to be something I have faith in! To someone who engages with theology, beyond a happy little bedtime story to make me feel comfortable with my own demise, the Simulationists are in the same ballpark, but without the test of time and some important calls to an almost unattainable set of criteria to live by, best expressed in the Beatitudes. If pressed I am probably more engaged by an agnostic understanding of the Abrahamic religions, but I can’t help to feel the overwhelming truth, love and warmth of all of existence radiate from the verses of the Bible, Old and New. My Jesuit theological trainings have led me to appreciate all other religions, to see the same love and energy in the multitudes of practice and expression, like the light in the center of a lamp, throwing subtlety different shadows on the walls from the inconsistencies in the making of the glass panes by human hands. Perhaps with time the Simulationists will end up with their own window into the glory of our existence! I will welcome such a transformation with open arms. I want to follow in Christ’s footsteps because it would make me a better person, no matter the fact that the struggle will never end. With God’s grace I am at least given the chance to try, fail and be forgiven for the limits of my human nature. The emphasis should be on the practice of humility, compassion, understanding, and forgiveness. The particular expression is in the realm of mere mortals and is as beautiful as any other artistic creation. I expect downvotes, but that’s OK. Father, forgive them; they know not what they do. (Luke 23:34) ;)
- vidarh 3y ago
  A "Simulationist" who believes we are certain to be in a simulation despite no evidence is just holding yet another religious belief. I see it as a possibility, but a possibility without evidence remains an interesting, untested hypothesis that might be grounds for speculation, not belief.
  - mistermann 3y ago
    What evidence do you have that there is no evidence though? Or does a different standard apply to certain claims, like cultural axioms?
    - me_me_me 3y ago
      No, no, no. I don't have to prove your claim to be wrong. YOU have to prove your claim to be right. You are making extraordinary claims that is at odd with everyday observable lives we live in. If you claims someone was walking on water, its not my job to prove you wrong!
      - mistermann 3y ago
        I would very much like to hear the details of these claims I am making, they sound quite exciting! I'd also like to know why the grandparent post has no burden of proof, are certain claims off limits to challenge for some reason, and can that reason be shared publicly?
        me_me_me 3y ago
        > I would very much like to hear the details of these claims I am making, they sound quite exciting! Original assertion - belief that we are in a simulation with 100% certainty is no different than a religious belief in a deity. You: "What evidence do you have that there is no evidence though?" Me: "You cannot claim no evidence is a meaningful assertion here, its not" > I'd also like to know why the grandparent post has no burden of proof The OP made no claims. An 'opinion' without an evidence is a belief.

by vidarh 3y ago

williamcotton 3y ago

Which sounds as unlikely as Jesus dying for my sins on the cross, a very strange thing that falls down upon scrutiny, which also happens to be something I have faith in! To someone who engages with theology, beyond a happy little bedtime story to make me feel comfortable with my own demise, the Simulationists are in the same ballpark, but without the test of time and some important calls to an almost unattainable set of criteria to live by, best expressed in the Beatitudes. If pressed I am probably more engaged by an agnostic understanding of the Abrahamic religions, but I can’t help to feel the overwhelming truth, love and warmth of all of existence radiate from the verses of the Bible, Old and New. My Jesuit theological trainings have led me to appreciate all other religions, to see the same love and energy in the multitudes of practice and expression, like the light in the center of a lamp, throwing subtlety different shadows on the walls from the inconsistencies in the making of the glass panes by human hands. Perhaps with time the Simulationists will end up with their own window into the glory of our existence! I will welcome such a transformation with open arms. I want to follow in Christ’s footsteps because it would make me a better person, no matter the fact that the struggle will never end. With God’s grace I am at least given the chance to try, fail and be forgiven for the limits of my human nature. The emphasis should be on the practice of humility, compassion, understanding, and forgiveness. The particular expression is in the realm of mere mortals and is as beautiful as any other artistic creation. I expect downvotes, but that’s OK. Father, forgive them; they know not what they do. (Luke 23:34) ;)

vidarh 3y ago
A "Simulationist" who believes we are certain to be in a simulation despite no evidence is just holding yet another religious belief. I see it as a possibility, but a possibility without evidence remains an interesting, untested hypothesis that might be grounds for speculation, not belief.
- mistermann 3y ago
  What evidence do you have that there is no evidence though? Or does a different standard apply to certain claims, like cultural axioms?
  - me_me_me 3y ago
    No, no, no. I don't have to prove your claim to be wrong. YOU have to prove your claim to be right. You are making extraordinary claims that is at odd with everyday observable lives we live in. If you claims someone was walking on water, its not my job to prove you wrong!
    - mistermann 3y ago
      I would very much like to hear the details of these claims I am making, they sound quite exciting! I'd also like to know why the grandparent post has no burden of proof, are certain claims off limits to challenge for some reason, and can that reason be shared publicly?
      - me_me_me 3y ago
        > I would very much like to hear the details of these claims I am making, they sound quite exciting! Original assertion - belief that we are in a simulation with 100% certainty is no different than a religious belief in a deity. You: "What evidence do you have that there is no evidence though?" Me: "You cannot claim no evidence is a meaningful assertion here, its not" > I'd also like to know why the grandparent post has no burden of proof The OP made no claims. An 'opinion' without an evidence is a belief.