3 ms·

If GP's mother switches from driving for herself to having Waymo drive for her, her risk of injury will increase. Therefore, if her goal is to avoid injury, it

If GP's mother switches from driving for herself to having Waymo drive for her, her risk of injury will increase. Therefore, if her goal is to avoid injury, it would be counterproductive for her to make that switch. That conclusion does not require any is-ought fallacy.

hot_gril 3y ago
Exactly. I know that my odds are different from the average.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  So are you one of the 88% who know they are better than average, or one of the 12% who are worse? https://www.smithlawco.com/blog/2017/december/do-most-drivers-really-think-they-are-above-aver/ https://www.smithlawco.com/blog/2017/december/do-most-driver...
  - eurleif 3y ago
    >Obviously, not everyone can be above average. Exactly half of all drivers have to be in the bottom half when it comes to driving skills and safety. This page is confused about the difference between mean and median. The 88% of drivers who think they are above average are not necessarily correct, but there would be nothing logically inconsistent about them being correct.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - dns_snek 3y ago
    This has nothing to do with being "a better driver" than average. If you simply don't drive while intoxicated, extremely tired, or distracted with your gadgets, you're already beating the average when it comes to collisions and injuries.
    - pooper 3y ago
      > If you simply don't drive while intoxicated, extremely tired, or distracted with your gadgets, you're already beating the average when it comes to collisions and injuries. It still does not make you a good driver. I've personally been in situations where I'm on the right lane, going slightly below the speed limit, when the vehicle (usually a pickup truck) passes me from the shoulder on the right, often blaring it's horns in disapproval as if they were on their way to save lives. > Rules for Using the Shoulder. The laws for using a shoulder vary in each state, but it is illegal in all states to use the shoulder to bypass traffic or to pass another driver. I can't wait to make it illegal for humans to drive on public roads.
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      It's mostly that. I don't think I'm more skilled or something. Also, using a smartphone while driving is illegal, but somehow using a 17" touchscreen that mirrors your smartphone and shows incoming texts is OK and common in newer cars.
  - lupusreal 3y ago
    Being better than average is easy because the average is dragged down by people who drive drunk/tired/etc. An average safety robocar would be a downgrade for most responsible people.
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      Yeah, I have 0 accidents, so nobody is going to convince me the AI is safer. Meanwhile my car's ESC has tried to send me off a cliff before.
concordDance 3y ago
That may be true, but I expect there's no scalable way to assess drivers for GGP mother-ness. So for public policy purposes we should encourage and allow self driving. And possibly even ban manual driving if we can't distinguish GGP mothers from poor drivers.
TeMPOraL 3y ago
All self driving > Reckless drivers only self-driving > current situation > small random population only self-driving > GGPs-mom-likes only self-driving. Unfortunately, identifying people like GGP's mother and excluding them from requirement for self-driving is prohibitively expensive (and icky in all kinds of ways), and so would be predicting reckless driving behavior (approximately every driver is reckless at some point anyway, GGP's mom included). So it's all self-driving or no self-driving, and all self-driving is strictly better for all of us, even if GGP's mom has to briefly accept slightly elevated risk.
- mh- 3y ago
  > identifying people like GGP's mother and excluding them from requirement for self-driving is prohibitively expensive (and icky in all kinds of ways) Not sure I follow the thinking here. We already have ability tests in driver's license exams.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Yes, and every mad or reckless driver passed them with flying colors, kind of by definition, otherwise we'd be talking about drivers illegally operating road vehicles. Approximately all traffic accidents involving drivers is involving drivers with valid license, who passed ability tests.
    - eurleif 3y ago
      A simple Google search reveals that the number of accidents caused by unlicensed drivers is ~20%, not ~0%: https://usclaims.com/educational-resources/non-licensed-drivers-responsible-for-20-percent-of-all-auto-accidents/ https://usclaims.com/educational-resources/non-licensed-driv... Moreover, the requirement to receive a license is only to pass, not to pass "with flying colors".
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    Those tests are dangerously insufficient to keep unsafe drivers off the road.
QuadmasterXLII 3y ago
If your mother is a decent driver, then almost all the danger she faces while driving comes from other people being shitty.

hot_gril 3y ago

Exactly. I know that my odds are different from the average.

resolutebat 3y ago
So are you one of the 88% who know they are better than average, or one of the 12% who are worse? https://www.smithlawco.com/blog/2017/december/do-most-drivers-really-think-they-are-above-aver/ https://www.smithlawco.com/blog/2017/december/do-most-driver...
- eurleif 3y ago
  >Obviously, not everyone can be above average. Exactly half of all drivers have to be in the bottom half when it comes to driving skills and safety. This page is confused about the difference between mean and median. The 88% of drivers who think they are above average are not necessarily correct, but there would be nothing logically inconsistent about them being correct.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- dns_snek 3y ago
  This has nothing to do with being "a better driver" than average. If you simply don't drive while intoxicated, extremely tired, or distracted with your gadgets, you're already beating the average when it comes to collisions and injuries.
  - pooper 3y ago
    > If you simply don't drive while intoxicated, extremely tired, or distracted with your gadgets, you're already beating the average when it comes to collisions and injuries. It still does not make you a good driver. I've personally been in situations where I'm on the right lane, going slightly below the speed limit, when the vehicle (usually a pickup truck) passes me from the shoulder on the right, often blaring it's horns in disapproval as if they were on their way to save lives. > Rules for Using the Shoulder. The laws for using a shoulder vary in each state, but it is illegal in all states to use the shoulder to bypass traffic or to pass another driver. I can't wait to make it illegal for humans to drive on public roads.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    It's mostly that. I don't think I'm more skilled or something. Also, using a smartphone while driving is illegal, but somehow using a 17" touchscreen that mirrors your smartphone and shows incoming texts is OK and common in newer cars.
- lupusreal 3y ago
  Being better than average is easy because the average is dragged down by people who drive drunk/tired/etc. An average safety robocar would be a downgrade for most responsible people.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    Yeah, I have 0 accidents, so nobody is going to convince me the AI is safer. Meanwhile my car's ESC has tried to send me off a cliff before.

concordDance 3y ago

That may be true, but I expect there's no scalable way to assess drivers for GGP mother-ness. So for public policy purposes we should encourage and allow self driving. And possibly even ban manual driving if we can't distinguish GGP mothers from poor drivers.

TeMPOraL 3y ago

All self driving > Reckless drivers only self-driving > current situation > small random population only self-driving > GGPs-mom-likes only self-driving. Unfortunately, identifying people like GGP's mother and excluding them from requirement for self-driving is prohibitively expensive (and icky in all kinds of ways), and so would be predicting reckless driving behavior (approximately every driver is reckless at some point anyway, GGP's mom included). So it's all self-driving or no self-driving, and all self-driving is strictly better for all of us, even if GGP's mom has to briefly accept slightly elevated risk.

mh- 3y ago
> identifying people like GGP's mother and excluding them from requirement for self-driving is prohibitively expensive (and icky in all kinds of ways) Not sure I follow the thinking here. We already have ability tests in driver's license exams.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Yes, and every mad or reckless driver passed them with flying colors, kind of by definition, otherwise we'd be talking about drivers illegally operating road vehicles. Approximately all traffic accidents involving drivers is involving drivers with valid license, who passed ability tests.
  - eurleif 3y ago
    A simple Google search reveals that the number of accidents caused by unlicensed drivers is ~20%, not ~0%: https://usclaims.com/educational-resources/non-licensed-drivers-responsible-for-20-percent-of-all-auto-accidents/ https://usclaims.com/educational-resources/non-licensed-driv... Moreover, the requirement to receive a license is only to pass, not to pass "with flying colors".
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  Those tests are dangerously insufficient to keep unsafe drivers off the road.

QuadmasterXLII 3y ago

If your mother is a decent driver, then almost all the danger she faces while driving comes from other people being shitty.