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The US is currently loosing to Russia in Europe, it's all talk no walk, similar to west - europe.

actionfromafar 3y ago
The US is "loosing" because it barely dipped a toe in the conflict. Motivate the US to go all in and it's a different story altogether. But I agree on the reluctance of Western Europe and the US to give support, the Ukraine conflict could have been over by now with proper support.
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  Not the OP, but political loss is still a loss. If the Republicans abandon Ukraine, US credibility will take a huge hit, probably worse than when the US abandoned South Vietnam.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  Much of Europe is giving support; but decades of US military support has resulted in our stockpiles being rather depleted, and supplies to Ukraine have so far been from stockpiles, not new manufacture. Russia presents a threat to Europe that it doesn't present to the USA. Europe needs to tool-up. I say this as a former pacifist.
hef19898 3y ago
Loosing? How exactly so? NATO is expanding, Russia isn't gaining anything currently in Ukraine, in fact Russia is becoming dependent on China, India and North Korea. And so far, NATO has to actively participate in the fighting in Ukraine. Since this would be a major escalation, one that is extremely hard to sell to NATO country citizens, that will obviously not happen anytime soon.
bbsz 3y ago
How? How US can be loosing a war it doesn't fight in? It's the same as saying that North Korea is loosing against Ukraine because they deliver ammunition to Russia. A fallacy. And even if you'd want to use that metric. How exactly loosing zero US personnel at the cost of getting a real-life assessment of NATO combined mobile warfare against the Soviet artillery superiority doctrine is a lose situation for US?
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  Which assessment of NATO mobile warfare we can talk about when there's literally no NATO's biggest asset - aviation and no biggest enabler or mobile warfare - battlefield isolation?
  - bbsz 3y ago
    Touche. But I'd say that this makes it even the more valuable lesson. Battlefield characteristics is still very close and Russians (now) are acting like they would act against the NATO-trained forces. And, of course, it's liberal on my part to put Ukrainian Army in the basket of NATO forces as that is only true for maybe a year (after the first rotations ended). That being said. I think that there's unprecedented amount of military intel US is getting out of this conflict for pennies on the dollar.
    - KptMarchewa 3y ago
      >Battlefield characteristics is still very close and Russians (now) are acting like they would act against the NATO-trained forces. I don't think they are even close to that - their meat assaults Avdiivka type is not something that would ever happen in conflict with NATO involvement, because the frontline would never stabilize in a way that would enable russia to employ those tactics. NATO-trained is very wide statement, some African armies and Afghanistan ones were NATO trained and it went nowhere. >That being said. I think that there's unprecedented amount of military intel US is getting out of this conflict for pennies on the dollar. Sure. There's no EW piece that russia had in 2022 and wasn't captured intact in the first few months :)
KptMarchewa 3y ago
With few hundred thousand russian casualties, and 0 US armed forces ones, Russia triumphally wins over US empire.

The US is "loosing" because it barely dipped a toe in the conflict. Motivate the US to go all in and it's a different story altogether. But I agree on the reluctance of Western Europe and the US to give support, the Ukraine conflict could have been over by now with proper support.

inglor_cz 3y ago
Not the OP, but political loss is still a loss. If the Republicans abandon Ukraine, US credibility will take a huge hit, probably worse than when the US abandoned South Vietnam.
denton-scratch 3y ago
Much of Europe is giving support; but decades of US military support has resulted in our stockpiles being rather depleted, and supplies to Ukraine have so far been from stockpiles, not new manufacture. Russia presents a threat to Europe that it doesn't present to the USA. Europe needs to tool-up. I say this as a former pacifist.

hef19898 3y ago

Loosing? How exactly so? NATO is expanding, Russia isn't gaining anything currently in Ukraine, in fact Russia is becoming dependent on China, India and North Korea. And so far, NATO has to actively participate in the fighting in Ukraine. Since this would be a major escalation, one that is extremely hard to sell to NATO country citizens, that will obviously not happen anytime soon.

bbsz 3y ago

How? How US can be loosing a war it doesn't fight in? It's the same as saying that North Korea is loosing against Ukraine because they deliver ammunition to Russia. A fallacy. And even if you'd want to use that metric. How exactly loosing zero US personnel at the cost of getting a real-life assessment of NATO combined mobile warfare against the Soviet artillery superiority doctrine is a lose situation for US?

KptMarchewa 3y ago
Which assessment of NATO mobile warfare we can talk about when there's literally no NATO's biggest asset - aviation and no biggest enabler or mobile warfare - battlefield isolation?
- bbsz 3y ago
  Touche. But I'd say that this makes it even the more valuable lesson. Battlefield characteristics is still very close and Russians (now) are acting like they would act against the NATO-trained forces. And, of course, it's liberal on my part to put Ukrainian Army in the basket of NATO forces as that is only true for maybe a year (after the first rotations ended). That being said. I think that there's unprecedented amount of military intel US is getting out of this conflict for pennies on the dollar.
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    >Battlefield characteristics is still very close and Russians (now) are acting like they would act against the NATO-trained forces. I don't think they are even close to that - their meat assaults Avdiivka type is not something that would ever happen in conflict with NATO involvement, because the frontline would never stabilize in a way that would enable russia to employ those tactics. NATO-trained is very wide statement, some African armies and Afghanistan ones were NATO trained and it went nowhere. >That being said. I think that there's unprecedented amount of military intel US is getting out of this conflict for pennies on the dollar. Sure. There's no EW piece that russia had in 2022 and wasn't captured intact in the first few months :)

KptMarchewa 3y ago

With few hundred thousand russian casualties, and 0 US armed forces ones, Russia triumphally wins over US empire.