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Stupid politics and not enough diplomacy didn't work there. https://www.mearsheimer.com/public_talks/why-is-ukraine-the-wests-fault/ https://www.mearsheimer.co

Stupid politics and not enough diplomacy didn't work there. https://www.mearsheimer.com/public_talks/why-is-ukraine-the-wests-fault/ https://www.mearsheimer.com/public_talks/why-is-ukraine-the-...

wbl 3y ago
By diplomacy he means letting Putin have what he wants. The fact is Russia repeatedly signed agreements saying no to a divided Europe and giving countries a free choice in who to ally with.
mopsi 3y ago
Mearsheimer is literally on Russian payroll. His works have received financial support from Russian government through the so-called Valdai club. Andrei Kozyrev, the minister of foreign affairs of the Russian Federation (1990-1996), had this to say about the purpose of the club and people like Mearsheimer: I ask Kozyrev about a debate that has roiled the American foreign policy establishment in the leadup to this war. Did NATO go too far? On the contrary, he thinks it didn’t go far enough. “One thing among many I admire about the American character is your ability to look into what you did and to be very, very critical of your mistakes,” Kozyrev says, in what I’m right to assume is a slightly philosophical preliminary to an incoming polemic. “Like when Congress unanimously passed a ban on any kind of lynching. It’s a little late, but it’s important because it’s a form of national repentance. That’s what Russia doesn’t do. Russia doesn’t repent. It hasn’t really for Stalinism or for cutting a deal with Hitler. Instead, it blames Ukraine for Nazism, which is ridiculous.” As to the pundits and policy mandarins who think the West sleepwalked into this crisis, which now threatens to bleed out beyond the borders of Russia and Belarus and Ukraine, Kozyrev thinks that’s simply nonsense. “Unfortunately, there are many wishful thinkers especially in academia here and intellectuals who have ties to Russia. They go to Valdai [a Russian think tank forum]. They consume caviar and vodka and are treated like kings by those who exist solely to manipulate them. This argument about NATO is just propaganda fed to Americans who then regurgitate it in their opinion and journal essays. The only real analysts who come here from Russia are dissidents. The rest are front people, just like in the Soviet Union, and they manufacture Western champions of the Putin regime, chumps and useful idiots.” I recommend reading it in full: https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/russias-ex-foreign-minister-on-his-totalitarian-country/ https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/russias-ex-foreign-ministe... His longer account of Russia-NATO relations is also quite a bit different from how Russian lapdogs try to depict the history in 2024: https://transatlanticrelations.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/19-Kozyrev.pdf https://transatlanticrelations.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0...
- hackandthink 3y ago
  Kozyrev statements are interesting, it is a tragedy that he failed and that the revanchists won. But Ukraine's und USA's way to deal with the revanchists (full confrontation) was reckless and stupid.
  - kspacewalk2 3y ago
    I wonder what you mean by "full confrontation"? Not rolling over and surrendering meekly? Ukraine is a sovereign state, it won't be neutered and turned into Russia's client state. If it takes "full confrontation" to do so, what other choice is there?
    - hackandthink 3y ago
      I mean the Maidan coup/revolution, not implementing Minsk 2, the shelling of cities in eastern Ukraine and the NATO partnership program.
      - khokhol 3y ago
        Which shelling events, specifically, are you referring to? Locations and dates, please.
        hackandthink 3y ago
        "CIVILIAN CASUALTIES IN THE CONFLICT-AFFECTED REGIONS OF EASTERN UKRAINE" https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/b/469734.pdf https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/b/469734.pdf "Out of the total 946 civilian casualties confirmed by the Mission, shelling and fire from small arms and light weapons (SALW) accounted for 625 casualties (77 killed and 548 injured). More than 85 per cent of these casualties occurred in Donetsk region."
        khokhol 3y ago
        We know about the report. How do its contents establish causus bellum?

Stupid politics and not enough diplomacy didn't work there. https://www.mearsheimer.com/public_talks/why-is-ukraine-the-wests-fault/ https://www.mearsheimer.com/public_talks/why-is-ukraine-the-...

wbl 3y ago

By diplomacy he means letting Putin have what he wants. The fact is Russia repeatedly signed agreements saying no to a divided Europe and giving countries a free choice in who to ally with.

mopsi 3y ago

Mearsheimer is literally on Russian payroll. His works have received financial support from Russian government through the so-called Valdai club. Andrei Kozyrev, the minister of foreign affairs of the Russian Federation (1990-1996), had this to say about the purpose of the club and people like Mearsheimer: I ask Kozyrev about a debate that has roiled the American foreign policy establishment in the leadup to this war. Did NATO go too far? On the contrary, he thinks it didn’t go far enough. “One thing among many I admire about the American character is your ability to look into what you did and to be very, very critical of your mistakes,” Kozyrev says, in what I’m right to assume is a slightly philosophical preliminary to an incoming polemic. “Like when Congress unanimously passed a ban on any kind of lynching. It’s a little late, but it’s important because it’s a form of national repentance. That’s what Russia doesn’t do. Russia doesn’t repent. It hasn’t really for Stalinism or for cutting a deal with Hitler. Instead, it blames Ukraine for Nazism, which is ridiculous.” As to the pundits and policy mandarins who think the West sleepwalked into this crisis, which now threatens to bleed out beyond the borders of Russia and Belarus and Ukraine, Kozyrev thinks that’s simply nonsense. “Unfortunately, there are many wishful thinkers especially in academia here and intellectuals who have ties to Russia. They go to Valdai [a Russian think tank forum]. They consume caviar and vodka and are treated like kings by those who exist solely to manipulate them. This argument about NATO is just propaganda fed to Americans who then regurgitate it in their opinion and journal essays. The only real analysts who come here from Russia are dissidents. The rest are front people, just like in the Soviet Union, and they manufacture Western champions of the Putin regime, chumps and useful idiots.” I recommend reading it in full: https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/russias-ex-foreign-minister-on-his-totalitarian-country/ https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/russias-ex-foreign-ministe... His longer account of Russia-NATO relations is also quite a bit different from how Russian lapdogs try to depict the history in 2024: https://transatlanticrelations.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/19-Kozyrev.pdf https://transatlanticrelations.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0...

hackandthink 3y ago
Kozyrev statements are interesting, it is a tragedy that he failed and that the revanchists won. But Ukraine's und USA's way to deal with the revanchists (full confrontation) was reckless and stupid.
- kspacewalk2 3y ago
  I wonder what you mean by "full confrontation"? Not rolling over and surrendering meekly? Ukraine is a sovereign state, it won't be neutered and turned into Russia's client state. If it takes "full confrontation" to do so, what other choice is there?
  - hackandthink 3y ago
    I mean the Maidan coup/revolution, not implementing Minsk 2, the shelling of cities in eastern Ukraine and the NATO partnership program.
    - khokhol 3y ago
      Which shelling events, specifically, are you referring to? Locations and dates, please.
      - hackandthink 3y ago
        "CIVILIAN CASUALTIES IN THE CONFLICT-AFFECTED REGIONS OF EASTERN UKRAINE" https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/b/469734.pdf https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/b/469734.pdf "Out of the total 946 civilian casualties confirmed by the Mission, shelling and fire from small arms and light weapons (SALW) accounted for 625 casualties (77 killed and 548 injured). More than 85 per cent of these casualties occurred in Donetsk region."
        khokhol 3y ago
        We know about the report. How do its contents establish causus bellum?