4 ms·

People will look at this article in 20 years and laugh at the NY Times for being ridiculously wrong.

robg 3y ago
What does the version in 2040 look like? We’re 17 years on from the first iPhone, and it’s still the same basic device. Incrementally better every year hasn’t meant any radical changes.
- frozenport 3y ago
  It runs a desktop os and you can use your regular apps, along with a keyboard and mouse.
- novok 3y ago
  That is like saying doom and cyberpunk 2077 are fundamentally the same thing.
  - elliotec 3y ago
    It’s not like saying that, but saying that doesn’t seem too absurd anyway.
  - kevingadd 3y ago
    as a game developer: they really are. the finer details are different, but the primary mode of interaction is pretty much the same. you bob and weave around rapidly while shooting at enemies who shoot back at you and a lot of the locations you fight your way through are pretty similar structurally to classic doom levels. they even have somewhat similar music styles. it's not bad for them to have the same fundamentals! it's important to recognize our roots and know the difference between something truly and fundamentally different vs something that is just extremely refined and iterated.
- kingds 3y ago
  it’s insane to argue that the iPhone 15 isn’t radically different from the iPhone 1. since 2007 smartphones have become capable of replacing so many of the separate gadgets people used to have. cameras and mp3 players (and phones!!) are basically a thing of the past thanks to the iPhone. i’m bearish on Apple Vision but if Apple can improve it at the same rate as the iPhone it will be here to stay imo
  - robg 3y ago
    Smartphones can do more, but are they radically different? Same look and feel, modestly better battery life. From v1 the camera is the biggest addition to what Jobs said - iPod, phone, browser. If AVP has the same incremental improvements, it will still be a bulky media device at best and I’ll still want to take it off for phone calls, work, and even taking photographs. Still cool, but not spatial computing.
  - ryanbrunner 3y ago
    > cameras and mp3 players (and phones!!) are basically a thing of the past thanks to the iPhone This was all true with the first iPhone though. That's the point. I'm sure that the Vision pro will be refined, but what will be necessary to make this a mass market device seems more fundamental than just a lot of refinements. When the iPhone came out, I remember thinking it was too expensive and not for me, but I definitely wanted one and was jealous of the few people I knew who had one. I just don't have that feeling with the Vision Pro - to the point where I feel if I was given one for free I still couldn't see myself using it much. That's sort of rare for Apple devices - even if I think some things are ridiculously overpriced I would always be happy with a free one and make good use of it.
    - jc_dc 3y ago
      It’s because you probably had a phone before the iPhone. If you’re not already a vr user then it’s hard to imagine how this will fit in your life. For me, if I happen to get an opportunity to strap a vr device to my face be interested to play around, but not motivated enough to go out of my way for it. As a developer, I already spend a fortune on devices and simply can’t see any of our products benefiting from vr…this was true with oculus, and is still true with vision pro.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  Same as the iPhone: thinner, 4x resolution, much bigger screen (means much larger FOV for the AVP). A budget SE version. I think it's going to become very normalized for consuming movies, TV, and console gaming (2D). Super popular on planes, trains, even car trips for kids.
  - robg 3y ago
    Agreed all around, just isn’t the future of spatial computing we’re being sold on. As an entertainment only device I’m sold if I were traveling more.
aniforprez 3y ago
Where are they wrong? This is a review of the device as it stands and not what its future looks like. They're charging $3500 for this device and not for the promise of future devices
bdcravens 3y ago
The criticisms of the original iPhone weren't inaccurate. Buying that iPhone didn't give you a free upgrade to subsequent models either.
wkat4242 3y ago
People also said the iPad would replace laptops and it hasn't except for the 0.1% that have complement adapted to its limitations. Doesn't mean the iPad is bad, but it's inherently much better at being a content consumption device. I think this is how we should view the vision pro. It's not "the new laptop", it's something entirely new that has its own pro and cons that are not necessarilya complete match with existing products.
- bottlepalm 3y ago
  They never opened up iPad for general purpose computing. iPad and iPhones for that matter could easily power laptop and desktop devices if Apple wanted them to.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Well if you ask Apple they did. It's basically what the iPad Pro is. Apple certainly views the iPad as a general computing device. Apple doesn't give you full access to your device, but they are also adding a lot of strings attached on Macs, with their notarisation, immutable OS partitions etc. Sure, you can still turn it off on Mac but it's basically an all-or-nothing, so you have to turn of all protections just to change one little thing. And you lose functionality, like the ability to run iOS apps: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/if-you-disable-sip-all-you-ios-apps-will-stop-working-on-your-m1.2269661/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/if-you-disable-sip-all-... Unfortunately the vendor deciding what you can and cannot do on your computing device is basically the "new model" which they managed to sneak onto us because there was very little opposition to it when iOS was introduced. It also enabled the app store rent seeking of course which was the main point.
    - bottlepalm 3y ago
      Can I install VS Code, Apache, PHP, SQL, use a terminal, VMs, etc.. on an iPad Pro? No? It’s not general purpose computer. Vendors deciding what we run never took off for general purpose computing. Apple getting away with worse business practices than Microsoft in the 90s is ironic.

robg 3y ago

What does the version in 2040 look like? We’re 17 years on from the first iPhone, and it’s still the same basic device. Incrementally better every year hasn’t meant any radical changes.

frozenport 3y ago
It runs a desktop os and you can use your regular apps, along with a keyboard and mouse.
novok 3y ago
That is like saying doom and cyberpunk 2077 are fundamentally the same thing.
- elliotec 3y ago
  It’s not like saying that, but saying that doesn’t seem too absurd anyway.
- kevingadd 3y ago
  as a game developer: they really are. the finer details are different, but the primary mode of interaction is pretty much the same. you bob and weave around rapidly while shooting at enemies who shoot back at you and a lot of the locations you fight your way through are pretty similar structurally to classic doom levels. they even have somewhat similar music styles. it's not bad for them to have the same fundamentals! it's important to recognize our roots and know the difference between something truly and fundamentally different vs something that is just extremely refined and iterated.
kingds 3y ago
it’s insane to argue that the iPhone 15 isn’t radically different from the iPhone 1. since 2007 smartphones have become capable of replacing so many of the separate gadgets people used to have. cameras and mp3 players (and phones!!) are basically a thing of the past thanks to the iPhone. i’m bearish on Apple Vision but if Apple can improve it at the same rate as the iPhone it will be here to stay imo
- robg 3y ago
  Smartphones can do more, but are they radically different? Same look and feel, modestly better battery life. From v1 the camera is the biggest addition to what Jobs said - iPod, phone, browser. If AVP has the same incremental improvements, it will still be a bulky media device at best and I’ll still want to take it off for phone calls, work, and even taking photographs. Still cool, but not spatial computing.
- ryanbrunner 3y ago
  > cameras and mp3 players (and phones!!) are basically a thing of the past thanks to the iPhone This was all true with the first iPhone though. That's the point. I'm sure that the Vision pro will be refined, but what will be necessary to make this a mass market device seems more fundamental than just a lot of refinements. When the iPhone came out, I remember thinking it was too expensive and not for me, but I definitely wanted one and was jealous of the few people I knew who had one. I just don't have that feeling with the Vision Pro - to the point where I feel if I was given one for free I still couldn't see myself using it much. That's sort of rare for Apple devices - even if I think some things are ridiculously overpriced I would always be happy with a free one and make good use of it.
  - jc_dc 3y ago
    It’s because you probably had a phone before the iPhone. If you’re not already a vr user then it’s hard to imagine how this will fit in your life. For me, if I happen to get an opportunity to strap a vr device to my face be interested to play around, but not motivated enough to go out of my way for it. As a developer, I already spend a fortune on devices and simply can’t see any of our products benefiting from vr…this was true with oculus, and is still true with vision pro.
crazygringo 3y ago
Same as the iPhone: thinner, 4x resolution, much bigger screen (means much larger FOV for the AVP). A budget SE version. I think it's going to become very normalized for consuming movies, TV, and console gaming (2D). Super popular on planes, trains, even car trips for kids.
- robg 3y ago
  Agreed all around, just isn’t the future of spatial computing we’re being sold on. As an entertainment only device I’m sold if I were traveling more.

aniforprez 3y ago

Where are they wrong? This is a review of the device as it stands and not what its future looks like. They're charging $3500 for this device and not for the promise of future devices

bdcravens 3y ago

The criticisms of the original iPhone weren't inaccurate. Buying that iPhone didn't give you a free upgrade to subsequent models either.

wkat4242 3y ago

People also said the iPad would replace laptops and it hasn't except for the 0.1% that have complement adapted to its limitations. Doesn't mean the iPad is bad, but it's inherently much better at being a content consumption device. I think this is how we should view the vision pro. It's not "the new laptop", it's something entirely new that has its own pro and cons that are not necessarilya complete match with existing products.

bottlepalm 3y ago
They never opened up iPad for general purpose computing. iPad and iPhones for that matter could easily power laptop and desktop devices if Apple wanted them to.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Well if you ask Apple they did. It's basically what the iPad Pro is. Apple certainly views the iPad as a general computing device. Apple doesn't give you full access to your device, but they are also adding a lot of strings attached on Macs, with their notarisation, immutable OS partitions etc. Sure, you can still turn it off on Mac but it's basically an all-or-nothing, so you have to turn of all protections just to change one little thing. And you lose functionality, like the ability to run iOS apps: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/if-you-disable-sip-all-you-ios-apps-will-stop-working-on-your-m1.2269661/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/if-you-disable-sip-all-... Unfortunately the vendor deciding what you can and cannot do on your computing device is basically the "new model" which they managed to sneak onto us because there was very little opposition to it when iOS was introduced. It also enabled the app store rent seeking of course which was the main point.
  - bottlepalm 3y ago
    Can I install VS Code, Apache, PHP, SQL, use a terminal, VMs, etc.. on an iPad Pro? No? It’s not general purpose computer. Vendors deciding what we run never took off for general purpose computing. Apple getting away with worse business practices than Microsoft in the 90s is ironic.