13 ms·

I think this is already a reality in Brasil. I’m really glad to see Europe making laws that improve citizens quality and competitiveness for companies.

by TigPT 3y ago

vdaea 3y ago
How does a law like this increase competitiveness? It looks like it decreases competitiveness, since banks can no longer compete on who has the fastest transfers.
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  Did banks ever compete on this? In any case, transfers rely on both banks processing the transaction speedily, so it wouldn't seem like something one bank could do unilaterally.
- short_sells_poo 3y ago
  Are you serious? It sets the ceiling on transfer time so that a minimum baseline quality of service is ensured.
  - vdaea 3y ago
    I'm not saying that it's not good for customers. I'm saying that it does not increase competitiveness, which was the claim.
    - syrgian 3y ago
      Companies (not banks) that can now settle payments almost in real-time rather than wait a day to confirm that the payment has been received makes them more competitive global-economy wise.
      - vdaea 3y ago
        How does this make banks more competitive global-economy wise when these 10-minute transfers won't work with banks outside the EU?
- troupo 3y ago
  This increases the competitiveness among other things because large established players cannot deny instant transfers to smaller competitors.
- paddez 3y ago
  So they'll have to compete elsewhere? How is this anything but a win for consumers?
  - tiltowait 3y ago
    The parent didn't say it's not a win for customers, just that it's not clear to them how it will enhance competition.
- kardos 3y ago
  Do they actually compete on speed here? The law seems like a mitigation for market failure -- there is not enough competition and the banks don't compete on things like this
- lpapez 3y ago
  They will simply have to compete in other areas. We know that sub-10-second-transfers are possible, by making it the norm you are not decreasing competition, just forcing players who are not competitive in this regard to conform or exit the field. Markets are not perfectly efficient and you can have competitors surviving due to foul play or simply customer inertia. This protects consumer interest by forcing such market players to at least get to a baseline level or die.
- dv_dt 3y ago
  Better than competition on who can get away with burdening their customers with the slowest transaction.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  Eh? No-one ever competed on that. It's not like there's much of a range; banks either do SEPA Instant (instant) or normal SEPA (same/next business day depending on cutoff timing).
neals 3y ago
However, it's not just about one country, this is (also) about 27 countries and the payment between them. Imagine being able to pay that quickly to your economically challenged neighbor (Argentina)?
- rihegher 3y ago
  Nitpicking but this is about euro transfers so a bit less than 27 countries
  - gcbirzan 3y ago
    That's not true. Payments in EUR have to follow these rules.
  - p_l 3y ago
    You can make EUR transfers to anyone in those 27 countries. "Euro Transfer" as in SEPA means that the currency of the transfer is set to EUR and that currency exchange is not part of the transfer itself (it can be done at originating or retrieving bank when the account involved is not in EUR, but the transfer itself has to be denominated in EUR at entry and exit from SEPA system)
  - nraynaud 3y ago
    oh god, don't go there! the payment area is not the same as Eurozone. Because no two things around here uses the same list of countries. "There are 36 countries in the SEPA area." https://www.revenue.ie/en/starting-a-business/documents/guide-to-sepa.pdf https://www.revenue.ie/en/starting-a-business/documents/guid...
- grotorea 3y ago
  Already a thing! At least for tourists. https://g1.globo.com/economia/noticia/2023/07/16/pix-tipo-exportacao-pagamento-instantaneo-se-populariza-na-argentina-com-real-valorizado.ghtml https://g1.globo.com/economia/noticia/2023/07/16/pix-tipo-ex... But there have been some noises in the direction of expanding regular service through Latin America. India's UPI also seems to be internationalizing. And there's FedNow in the US that is probably going to get automatically popular just for being from the US. Wonder if we're going to end up with a bunch of incompatible systems around the world or what.
pornel 3y ago
In the UK as well (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments)
hulitu 3y ago
Like this one: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:31988R1677 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:31...

I think this is already a reality in Brasil. I’m really glad to see Europe making laws that improve citizens quality and competitiveness for companies.

by TigPT 3y ago

I think this is already a reality in Brasil. I’m really glad to see Europe making laws that improve citizens quality and competitiveness for companies.

vdaea 3y ago

How does a law like this increase competitiveness? It looks like it decreases competitiveness, since banks can no longer compete on who has the fastest transfers.

MattPalmer1086 3y ago
Did banks ever compete on this? In any case, transfers rely on both banks processing the transaction speedily, so it wouldn't seem like something one bank could do unilaterally.
short_sells_poo 3y ago
Are you serious? It sets the ceiling on transfer time so that a minimum baseline quality of service is ensured.
- vdaea 3y ago
  I'm not saying that it's not good for customers. I'm saying that it does not increase competitiveness, which was the claim.
  - syrgian 3y ago
    Companies (not banks) that can now settle payments almost in real-time rather than wait a day to confirm that the payment has been received makes them more competitive global-economy wise.
    - vdaea 3y ago
      How does this make banks more competitive global-economy wise when these 10-minute transfers won't work with banks outside the EU?
troupo 3y ago
This increases the competitiveness among other things because large established players cannot deny instant transfers to smaller competitors.
paddez 3y ago
So they'll have to compete elsewhere? How is this anything but a win for consumers?
- tiltowait 3y ago
  The parent didn't say it's not a win for customers, just that it's not clear to them how it will enhance competition.
kardos 3y ago
Do they actually compete on speed here? The law seems like a mitigation for market failure -- there is not enough competition and the banks don't compete on things like this
lpapez 3y ago
They will simply have to compete in other areas. We know that sub-10-second-transfers are possible, by making it the norm you are not decreasing competition, just forcing players who are not competitive in this regard to conform or exit the field. Markets are not perfectly efficient and you can have competitors surviving due to foul play or simply customer inertia. This protects consumer interest by forcing such market players to at least get to a baseline level or die.
dv_dt 3y ago
Better than competition on who can get away with burdening their customers with the slowest transaction.
rsynnott 3y ago
Eh? No-one ever competed on that. It's not like there's much of a range; banks either do SEPA Instant (instant) or normal SEPA (same/next business day depending on cutoff timing).

neals 3y ago

However, it's not just about one country, this is (also) about 27 countries and the payment between them. Imagine being able to pay that quickly to your economically challenged neighbor (Argentina)?

rihegher 3y ago
Nitpicking but this is about euro transfers so a bit less than 27 countries
- gcbirzan 3y ago
  That's not true. Payments in EUR have to follow these rules.
- p_l 3y ago
  You can make EUR transfers to anyone in those 27 countries. "Euro Transfer" as in SEPA means that the currency of the transfer is set to EUR and that currency exchange is not part of the transfer itself (it can be done at originating or retrieving bank when the account involved is not in EUR, but the transfer itself has to be denominated in EUR at entry and exit from SEPA system)
- nraynaud 3y ago
  oh god, don't go there! the payment area is not the same as Eurozone. Because no two things around here uses the same list of countries. "There are 36 countries in the SEPA area." https://www.revenue.ie/en/starting-a-business/documents/guide-to-sepa.pdf https://www.revenue.ie/en/starting-a-business/documents/guid...
grotorea 3y ago
Already a thing! At least for tourists. https://g1.globo.com/economia/noticia/2023/07/16/pix-tipo-exportacao-pagamento-instantaneo-se-populariza-na-argentina-com-real-valorizado.ghtml https://g1.globo.com/economia/noticia/2023/07/16/pix-tipo-ex... But there have been some noises in the direction of expanding regular service through Latin America. India's UPI also seems to be internationalizing. And there's FedNow in the US that is probably going to get automatically popular just for being from the US. Wonder if we're going to end up with a bunch of incompatible systems around the world or what.

pornel 3y ago

In the UK as well (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments)

hulitu 3y ago

Like this one: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:31988R1677 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:31...