4 ms·

Perhaps the obese individuals in the study were obese because they never had the typical physical signals that occur after consuming adequate nutrition? The stu

Perhaps the obese individuals in the study were obese because they never had the typical physical signals that occur after consuming adequate nutrition? The study does not seem to consider this, and it's important. A lot of the "science of obesity" has historically hinged on the notion of gluttony or of eating disorders, where it is assumed people are rejecting the natural feelings of satiety and deliberately eating beyond the natural feelings of fullness. Certainly gluttony and eating disorders are things that happen, but what if many obese people simply have felt hungry their entire lives and are merely trying to slake their intrinsic hunger? The new GLP-1 and GIP drugs are fascinating, as they do seem to create feelings of satiety after reasonable nutrition in people who have never had that experience before.

chewz 3y ago
[flagged]
darkclouds 3y ago
[dead]
octokatt 3y ago
They removed participants with childhood-onset obesity to control for this discovered factor being innate. While this study needs further follow-up, it’s a good starting point to uncover more of the psychological/neurological effects of obesity.
- iwanttocomment 3y ago
  That's true, but only with children under 4 years old, which isn't tremendously meaningful. Few three year olds are allowed to make their own food choices, and thus may be restricted in weight despite innate hunger due to the fact that adults are limiting their food intake. Not to mention that the US CDC measures childhood obesity as weighing above a percentile of the population, an even more tenuous measure than BMI.
P_I_Staker 3y ago
I think only some people who carry extra weight claim to battle hunger. > where it is assumed people are rejecting the natural feelings of satiety and deliberately eating beyond the natural feelings of fullness... A lot of the "science of obesity" has historically hinged on the notion of gluttony or of eating disorders, I don't like the term gluttony here. I also don't think they deliberately eat past fullness. It's hard to explain, but it models pretty well like a drug addiction. IMO most drug users that struggle with addiction aren't necessarily "going hard". There's typically more to the story, just like food. It may not be some deep darkness in their soul, though it often is. Things like the attention you pay, your feelings, societal norms, etc. all factor in. So eating disorder might be appropriate in this case, but you have to accept "mild eating disorders" which most people in the USA probably have (and at least 20-50% of w. Europe, and growing); however perhaps not an eating disorder as we traditionally think. P.S. I'm not discounting the "hungry bois", as I understand they are out there too. It's probably about half the people "disordered" and half the people hungry; though it probably isn't a dichotomy
- tpmoney 3y ago
  >I think only some people who carry extra weight claim to battle hunger. I wonder to what extent that's because they've never properly felt not hungry? I've spoken on here recently about my experience with a medication that has reduced my appetite. If you'd asked me before the medication do I "battle hunger" I would have said no. Sure I would be hungry and want to eat, but I would have listed all sorts of reasons why I was struggling with food. Depression and stress, lack of self control, procrastination, not enough will power. I would have listed them all, but "hunger" would have been down towards the bottom of the list. And why wouldn't it be, every time I'd successfully managed to lose some weight, I did it with basic CICO calculations and a lot of "will power". Yeah I was hungry, but aren't you supposed to be hungry if you don't eat as much as you normally do? But this medication has given me a new perspective. Because for the first time since I was a teenager, I'm not hungry. I never noticed because I'd never not been hungry. I didn't really know what it felt like to be not hungry. Less hungry? Sure. Physically full? Sure. But the actual feeling of having eaten some food and just know it was enough and I don't need to eat any more? Never experienced before. In fact, for about the first week or so, I was convinced that the medication was giving me anxiety as a side effect. Part way through the day I'd start getting this twisting feeling in my stomach, and then it would happen again towards the end of the day. And then I realized that it was happening right around meal times. Right around when I should be getting hungry. It wasn't anxiety, it was being hungry after not being hungry. Again, never really had that experience before. But like I said, had you asked me before this, I don't think I would have ever suggested I "battled hunger".
paulpauper 3y ago
The new GLP-1 and GIP drugs are fascinating, as they do seem to create feelings of satiety after reasonable nutrition in people who have never had that experience before. With the help of these drugs, it's after consuming far fewer calories than predicted by TDEE regression models that people lose weight and become un-obese. It shows how abnormally slow metabolism may be to blame for obesity, not addiction.
- iwanttocomment 3y ago
  Given that the TDEE regression models generally predict what is necessary to maintain and not lose weight, it would not be surprising that a substantial lowering of calories over what is modeled for TDEE would be necessary to reduce weight.
  - paulpauper 3y ago
    This is to maintain the lower weight. So if the TDEE calculators put a 6-ft tall man at 2300 calories/day to be normal weight, a formerly obese person would have to eat no more than , say, 1700 to maintain the same BMI. GLP-1 drugs make this easier to do.
    - iwanttocomment 3y ago
      This is purely conjecture, but I strongly suspect that since the GLP-1 drugs lower appetite in general, individuals on them typically do not end up eating high protein diets, where a protein-sparing low calorie diet would be highly beneficial and could likely maintain LBM and TDEE.

chewz 3y ago

[flagged]

darkclouds 3y ago

[dead]

octokatt 3y ago

They removed participants with childhood-onset obesity to control for this discovered factor being innate. While this study needs further follow-up, it’s a good starting point to uncover more of the psychological/neurological effects of obesity.

iwanttocomment 3y ago
That's true, but only with children under 4 years old, which isn't tremendously meaningful. Few three year olds are allowed to make their own food choices, and thus may be restricted in weight despite innate hunger due to the fact that adults are limiting their food intake. Not to mention that the US CDC measures childhood obesity as weighing above a percentile of the population, an even more tenuous measure than BMI.

P_I_Staker 3y ago

I think only some people who carry extra weight claim to battle hunger. > where it is assumed people are rejecting the natural feelings of satiety and deliberately eating beyond the natural feelings of fullness... A lot of the "science of obesity" has historically hinged on the notion of gluttony or of eating disorders, I don't like the term gluttony here. I also don't think they deliberately eat past fullness. It's hard to explain, but it models pretty well like a drug addiction. IMO most drug users that struggle with addiction aren't necessarily "going hard". There's typically more to the story, just like food. It may not be some deep darkness in their soul, though it often is. Things like the attention you pay, your feelings, societal norms, etc. all factor in. So eating disorder might be appropriate in this case, but you have to accept "mild eating disorders" which most people in the USA probably have (and at least 20-50% of w. Europe, and growing); however perhaps not an eating disorder as we traditionally think. P.S. I'm not discounting the "hungry bois", as I understand they are out there too. It's probably about half the people "disordered" and half the people hungry; though it probably isn't a dichotomy

tpmoney 3y ago
>I think only some people who carry extra weight claim to battle hunger. I wonder to what extent that's because they've never properly felt not hungry? I've spoken on here recently about my experience with a medication that has reduced my appetite. If you'd asked me before the medication do I "battle hunger" I would have said no. Sure I would be hungry and want to eat, but I would have listed all sorts of reasons why I was struggling with food. Depression and stress, lack of self control, procrastination, not enough will power. I would have listed them all, but "hunger" would have been down towards the bottom of the list. And why wouldn't it be, every time I'd successfully managed to lose some weight, I did it with basic CICO calculations and a lot of "will power". Yeah I was hungry, but aren't you supposed to be hungry if you don't eat as much as you normally do? But this medication has given me a new perspective. Because for the first time since I was a teenager, I'm not hungry. I never noticed because I'd never not been hungry. I didn't really know what it felt like to be not hungry. Less hungry? Sure. Physically full? Sure. But the actual feeling of having eaten some food and just know it was enough and I don't need to eat any more? Never experienced before. In fact, for about the first week or so, I was convinced that the medication was giving me anxiety as a side effect. Part way through the day I'd start getting this twisting feeling in my stomach, and then it would happen again towards the end of the day. And then I realized that it was happening right around meal times. Right around when I should be getting hungry. It wasn't anxiety, it was being hungry after not being hungry. Again, never really had that experience before. But like I said, had you asked me before this, I don't think I would have ever suggested I "battled hunger".

paulpauper 3y ago

The new GLP-1 and GIP drugs are fascinating, as they do seem to create feelings of satiety after reasonable nutrition in people who have never had that experience before. With the help of these drugs, it's after consuming far fewer calories than predicted by TDEE regression models that people lose weight and become un-obese. It shows how abnormally slow metabolism may be to blame for obesity, not addiction.

iwanttocomment 3y ago
Given that the TDEE regression models generally predict what is necessary to maintain and not lose weight, it would not be surprising that a substantial lowering of calories over what is modeled for TDEE would be necessary to reduce weight.
- paulpauper 3y ago
  This is to maintain the lower weight. So if the TDEE calculators put a 6-ft tall man at 2300 calories/day to be normal weight, a formerly obese person would have to eat no more than , say, 1700 to maintain the same BMI. GLP-1 drugs make this easier to do.
  - iwanttocomment 3y ago
    This is purely conjecture, but I strongly suspect that since the GLP-1 drugs lower appetite in general, individuals on them typically do not end up eating high protein diets, where a protein-sparing low calorie diet would be highly beneficial and could likely maintain LBM and TDEE.