3 ms·

What makes you think vision pro is dominating? Unlike iPhone etc it has no distinguishing feature I know of.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
Speaking as a VR enthusiast who has virtually no interest in it: The Vision Pro is an entirely new product relative to any other VR headset I know of. It offers a comprehensive set of computing features (discounting an App Store which has only really just started) that puts it roughly on par with something like iPad OS. I would say it dominates currently for VR headsets if that is what you're after, because it's basically your only option. Desktop computing in VR is possible with things like a Vive or an Index but the experience is entirely different, worse on every front, and is basically done as a workaround in case you need to operate your PC while in VR without taking off the headset. And of course, all of those headsets are (quite intelligent, but remain merely) displays: they require a fairly powerful computer to attach to. There are headsets that operate independently too, like Meta's offerings, but those are much, much, much more restrictive in terms of capability than the Vision Pro. My interest in VR is basically solely for gaming, so the Vision Pro for me is a complete miss and I have no plans to purchase one. That being said, in the realm of productivity VR, I'd say they are dominating in that they're the sole entrant to the market that I'm aware of and their offering is extremely compelling.
- romeros 3y ago
  To paraphrase YC/Sama etc. If there is a small grouop of initial users who are obsessively using it and can't get enough of it. Then VP will work and be here to stay. If not, then it is not their time. So, the question is this. If you know anyone who actually got VP. Are they using it obsessively? I got occulus rift a while ago and so did many of my friends. We bought it but never really used it. Like probably a few times in a year to show friends.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    I don't know enough to really say anything with confidence, apart from that if Apple's track record is anything to go by, if any company can get VR-for-work right, I suspect it's them. Not my 10 but I suspect it will be a lot of people's.
  - elliotbnvl 3y ago
    I am.
    - dmarcos 3y ago
      What do you do with it? How often? Is it your first headset?
      - elliotbnvl 3y ago
        Primarily using it for software development. I'm a web dev. I'm on day three of all-day usage (~8hrs, with breaks) and my experience has improved with each day, both in terms of comfort and as I get used to visionOS. I have 10 windows open in front of me right now, including my calendars, Slack, Messages, Spotify (in Safari), ChatGPT, a reference browser for documentation, and a few other odds and ends. My main front and center window is my 4k MacBook Pro 16" screen in 1080p (larger than that and the screen is too large for me or the text too small, but I prefer slightly larger text usually). I've also used it for reading, watching movies, and reminiscing over old photos. Something I don't think that has really been captured well in reviews is how incredible it is to look at life-size recreations of photos you took on your phone, even plain old 2D ones. There's something really special about seeing a photo at life-size scale wherever you want, even if you technically can achieve this with a massive projector. And that's to say nothing of the bittersweet nostalgic nature of spatial video / photos, which has, if anything, been profoundly understated. It is not my first headset. Previous to the AVP, I owned Quests 1, 2, and 3, and I experienced the Rift before that. I tried, hard, to work all day in each of the Quests as that was my primary use case for them, but flamed out after a couple of hours every time.
        ToucanLoucan 3y ago
        For my own curiousity: how do you type? As in, does the VP have like a... idk, hologram keyboard or something?
        elliotbnvl 3y ago
        It does, but you can connect a Bluetooth keyboard, which is what I do. Or, if you are using virtual desktop, you can use your mouse and keyboard to control VP natively as well. The only drawback is that this may not work if you are on VPN (even if the desktop comes through OK). I'm hoping this is a software issue that will get straightened out soon.
  - dmarcos 3y ago
    Yeah, Not sure you can call “dominating” at having a unique feature that nobody uses. Time will tell but I think Vision Pro will have similar retention issues to other headsets. Fundamental problems still there (weight, vergence accommodation conflict, isolation…)
    - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
      I'm not trying to come across as vehemently pro Vision Pro here, I'm genuinely not sure if there's a market for this, but like... I really feel the need to say, this is not like any other headset, just, at all. On the weight front, it's significantly lighter than a Valve Index, by roughly 20%, and that's just the unit I'm pretty sure, the Index has an umbilical cord that is not-insubstantial in mass by itself that dangles off the back of your head, so already the Vision Pro is quite far ahead on comfort. VAC is of course a factor in any headset and this really comes down to the per-user situation: I personally got my "VR legs" in about thirty minutes way back when I got started, and am able to use full motion movement pretty well now with only minimal vertigo when things go up and down too fast for my brain's liking. However, the VP is going to have a distinct advantage here with it's big complicated camera system that allows it to operate both in VR and in AR, with most applications seeming to live in the latter realm. I think that's going to lend itself to big comfort gains for people who aren't as blessed as me in that regard. Isolation also is much improved with the VP, what with it employing again, the camera system, and also the fact that the Vision Pro (much like my Valve Index) doesn't cover or obstruct the ears. And you get those weird CG eyes you can plaster on the front of the thing, haha. Like again, I don't know if this will work out long term, I'm interested to see if it will really. But I see people keep comparing it to other headsets and as a fervent enjoyer of many of these headsets, I really cannot overemphasize how bad that comparison is.
      - dmarcos 3y ago
        I personally don’t think is significantly better (own all the headsets since DK1) in terms of comfort. In some aspects worse. Yesterday had to change clothes to use the AVP because my pajamas don’t have pockets for the battery pack. Each headset has a different set of annoyances. not sure AVP is net positive in comparison. Wearing a headset / computer on your face is a cost (vs wearing nothing) that the value prop gotta offset. We’ll see if it is a net positive, worth the tradeoff for a significant amount of people. Previous evidence indicates it isn’t.
- jwells89 3y ago
  It’s also got nearly the entire library of iPad apps available to it to tide users over until native alternatives appear, plus for many apps providing a native version is little more than ticking a box in Xcode on existing iOS projects. This might sound trivial but it determines how long the user is able to use the device exclusively without relying on their phone, computer, etc which is a major factor in it being used at all.
- hinkley 3y ago
  There's only a slim chance of history repeating here, but the olds here may recall that in the early days of discrete graphics cards, particularly before 3D took over, there were a lot of people buying graphics cards for Serious Business Reasons but really in order to play games when off the clock. A graphics card could make your spreadsheets go faster, but that's not really why they bought them. It's plausible, however improbable, that a VR headset targeted at Serious Business Reasons could open doors that entertainment has not. And in particular, slightly unwieldy price points that can be rationalized a bit easier.
jolt42 3y ago
You can run your laptop and other apps with multiple screens as big and layed out where how you want while still having a usable (seeable) keyboard? Is the latency such that you don't get nauseous? Seems useful for productivity. Do other goggles have these feature, yes, but there's a difference between being a toy versus actually being as good/better than how I work now.
- jolt42 3y ago
  I don't yet know if its as good/better, but it appears to be at least on the cusp.

Speaking as a VR enthusiast who has virtually no interest in it: The Vision Pro is an entirely new product relative to any other VR headset I know of. It offers a comprehensive set of computing features (discounting an App Store which has only really just started) that puts it roughly on par with something like iPad OS. I would say it dominates currently for VR headsets if that is what you're after, because it's basically your only option. Desktop computing in VR is possible with things like a Vive or an Index but the experience is entirely different, worse on every front, and is basically done as a workaround in case you need to operate your PC while in VR without taking off the headset. And of course, all of those headsets are (quite intelligent, but remain merely) displays: they require a fairly powerful computer to attach to. There are headsets that operate independently too, like Meta's offerings, but those are much, much, much more restrictive in terms of capability than the Vision Pro. My interest in VR is basically solely for gaming, so the Vision Pro for me is a complete miss and I have no plans to purchase one. That being said, in the realm of productivity VR, I'd say they are dominating in that they're the sole entrant to the market that I'm aware of and their offering is extremely compelling.

romeros 3y ago
To paraphrase YC/Sama etc. If there is a small grouop of initial users who are obsessively using it and can't get enough of it. Then VP will work and be here to stay. If not, then it is not their time. So, the question is this. If you know anyone who actually got VP. Are they using it obsessively? I got occulus rift a while ago and so did many of my friends. We bought it but never really used it. Like probably a few times in a year to show friends.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  I don't know enough to really say anything with confidence, apart from that if Apple's track record is anything to go by, if any company can get VR-for-work right, I suspect it's them. Not my 10 but I suspect it will be a lot of people's.
- elliotbnvl 3y ago
  I am.
  - dmarcos 3y ago
    What do you do with it? How often? Is it your first headset?
    - elliotbnvl 3y ago
      Primarily using it for software development. I'm a web dev. I'm on day three of all-day usage (~8hrs, with breaks) and my experience has improved with each day, both in terms of comfort and as I get used to visionOS. I have 10 windows open in front of me right now, including my calendars, Slack, Messages, Spotify (in Safari), ChatGPT, a reference browser for documentation, and a few other odds and ends. My main front and center window is my 4k MacBook Pro 16" screen in 1080p (larger than that and the screen is too large for me or the text too small, but I prefer slightly larger text usually). I've also used it for reading, watching movies, and reminiscing over old photos. Something I don't think that has really been captured well in reviews is how incredible it is to look at life-size recreations of photos you took on your phone, even plain old 2D ones. There's something really special about seeing a photo at life-size scale wherever you want, even if you technically can achieve this with a massive projector. And that's to say nothing of the bittersweet nostalgic nature of spatial video / photos, which has, if anything, been profoundly understated. It is not my first headset. Previous to the AVP, I owned Quests 1, 2, and 3, and I experienced the Rift before that. I tried, hard, to work all day in each of the Quests as that was my primary use case for them, but flamed out after a couple of hours every time.
      - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
        For my own curiousity: how do you type? As in, does the VP have like a... idk, hologram keyboard or something?
        elliotbnvl 3y ago
        It does, but you can connect a Bluetooth keyboard, which is what I do. Or, if you are using virtual desktop, you can use your mouse and keyboard to control VP natively as well. The only drawback is that this may not work if you are on VPN (even if the desktop comes through OK). I'm hoping this is a software issue that will get straightened out soon.
- dmarcos 3y ago
  Yeah, Not sure you can call “dominating” at having a unique feature that nobody uses. Time will tell but I think Vision Pro will have similar retention issues to other headsets. Fundamental problems still there (weight, vergence accommodation conflict, isolation…)
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    I'm not trying to come across as vehemently pro Vision Pro here, I'm genuinely not sure if there's a market for this, but like... I really feel the need to say, this is not like any other headset, just, at all. On the weight front, it's significantly lighter than a Valve Index, by roughly 20%, and that's just the unit I'm pretty sure, the Index has an umbilical cord that is not-insubstantial in mass by itself that dangles off the back of your head, so already the Vision Pro is quite far ahead on comfort. VAC is of course a factor in any headset and this really comes down to the per-user situation: I personally got my "VR legs" in about thirty minutes way back when I got started, and am able to use full motion movement pretty well now with only minimal vertigo when things go up and down too fast for my brain's liking. However, the VP is going to have a distinct advantage here with it's big complicated camera system that allows it to operate both in VR and in AR, with most applications seeming to live in the latter realm. I think that's going to lend itself to big comfort gains for people who aren't as blessed as me in that regard. Isolation also is much improved with the VP, what with it employing again, the camera system, and also the fact that the Vision Pro (much like my Valve Index) doesn't cover or obstruct the ears. And you get those weird CG eyes you can plaster on the front of the thing, haha. Like again, I don't know if this will work out long term, I'm interested to see if it will really. But I see people keep comparing it to other headsets and as a fervent enjoyer of many of these headsets, I really cannot overemphasize how bad that comparison is.
    - dmarcos 3y ago
      I personally don’t think is significantly better (own all the headsets since DK1) in terms of comfort. In some aspects worse. Yesterday had to change clothes to use the AVP because my pajamas don’t have pockets for the battery pack. Each headset has a different set of annoyances. not sure AVP is net positive in comparison. Wearing a headset / computer on your face is a cost (vs wearing nothing) that the value prop gotta offset. We’ll see if it is a net positive, worth the tradeoff for a significant amount of people. Previous evidence indicates it isn’t.
jwells89 3y ago
It’s also got nearly the entire library of iPad apps available to it to tide users over until native alternatives appear, plus for many apps providing a native version is little more than ticking a box in Xcode on existing iOS projects. This might sound trivial but it determines how long the user is able to use the device exclusively without relying on their phone, computer, etc which is a major factor in it being used at all.
hinkley 3y ago
There's only a slim chance of history repeating here, but the olds here may recall that in the early days of discrete graphics cards, particularly before 3D took over, there were a lot of people buying graphics cards for Serious Business Reasons but really in order to play games when off the clock. A graphics card could make your spreadsheets go faster, but that's not really why they bought them. It's plausible, however improbable, that a VR headset targeted at Serious Business Reasons could open doors that entertainment has not. And in particular, slightly unwieldy price points that can be rationalized a bit easier.

jolt42 3y ago

You can run your laptop and other apps with multiple screens as big and layed out where how you want while still having a usable (seeable) keyboard? Is the latency such that you don't get nauseous? Seems useful for productivity. Do other goggles have these feature, yes, but there's a difference between being a toy versus actually being as good/better than how I work now.

jolt42 3y ago
I don't yet know if its as good/better, but it appears to be at least on the cusp.