4 ms·

Same as juicero, many people bash the product but the engineering is world class.

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
Like, maybe, not same as.
jrockway 3y ago
I am not sure that I agree. Engineering is a world of tradeoffs. Juicero said "we are going to overbuild every component even if it means the company goes out of business". Welp. Most impressive to me is when every unnecessary component has been removed, and every remaining component is as simple as possible. (The example that sticks in my mind is the humble $5 drip coffee pot. No moving parts except the switch to turn it on!)
- ycombinete 3y ago
  I’m currently looking at getting a drip coffee pot. Can you recommend one?
  - emptybits 3y ago
    I'll jump in here and suggest a Technivorm Moccamaster. As simple as possible but no simpler. It has an "ON" switch. Excellent drip brewer. Widely available. Handmade in EU. Five year warranty. All parts available and serviceable. Design has not changed materially for decades. Certified by European Coffee Brewing Center and the Specialty Coffee Association. Where I'm coming from: I'm picky about coffee making and am not interested in the espresso investment for home. So I made delicious Chemex and Hario pourovers for myself, family, and friends for 15 years because I never thought I'd enjoy the compromises of a drip coffee maker. I was wrong. The Moccamaster makes an excellent half or full carafe, consistently, every time. And I don't suffer Pourover Interruptus on busy mornings. The thermal carafe version was my choice. No regrets.
    - ghc 3y ago
      I'll second this. I've had a Moccamaster for 15 years and I suspect it'll last another 15. The version with the thermal carafe is simple, durable, and makes excellent coffee.
    - ycombinete 3y ago
      Thanks I’ve been looking at that one. I love the aesthetic and simplicity. I’d like an auto start option, but it’s not a deal breaker. Glad to hear you e got such great use out of it!
  - olliej 3y ago
    I'm not a coffee connoisseur (and honestly could only spell that because of autocarrot), but for me beans are hands down more important than any other part of the brewing process until you get to absurdly expensive. So we got a Krups grind and brew unit, though the exact model we have isn't available anymore, it's been going strong for maybe 7 years without any issues. It has a hopper you can just fill with beans and it grinds an approximation of the right amount for home much coffee you want (and you can put water in the night before and set it to have coffee brewed when you get up). My only complaint for our particular model is the burr is really loud, but I don't recall if it's always been that loud or it's just beginning to get old. [edit: this is an addendum because I saw u/emptybits suggestion and just wanted to acknowledge that it's a nicer brewer but I'm a pleb and here's the reasoning I have for preferring my lazy-omatic brewer (maybe I should trademark the name?) :D] It's not as expensive (or as nice looking) as the Technivorm that u/emptybits recommends, and I would absolutely expect better extraction from the technivorm as well (at least vs our model, which has the very old school single drip point), but the convenience of a single appliance is honestly more important to me than the price difference. I think there's also an element of how much the ritual of coffee making matters to you? I don't care at all, so it's just an appliance in the corner, and there's the other extreme where people have millions of gadgets and/or siphon brewers (which I admit do look super fun, but they also apparently don't even produce good coffee?). One thing I do wish is there was a thermal carafe option for our unit, even though it does keep the element going to keep the coffee warm I do think that even I can taste some harshness after it's been sitting on the warmer for a while, and then when the warmer does disengage it becomes cold very quickly.
    - ycombinete 3y ago
      Thanks, I like the idea of a grinder. To be honest I’m not even bothered by using ground coffee. Right now I mostly use a Moka pot or french press, with Illy/Lavazza preground coffee.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jrockway 3y ago
    It depends on how much you care about coffee. If you care enough to freshly grind everyday, weigh the coffee, weigh the water, etc. then you probably just want a simple V60 pourover (or Chemex if you want something fancier). Aeropress is also good and my personal favorite brewing method. If you want something to produce a vat of coffee in the morning on a timer, which is totally understandable, there are some good options. Buy whatever James likes here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8eYs2vxT-8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8eYs2vxT-8 (I watched the video 2 years ago and forget ;) The problem I have is keeping coffee fresh for how little I drink. I ended up switching over to a subscription service that just sends me frozen single-cup pods of coffee. It's pretty good and very easy to make; just add to hot water. It's like $70 for 32 pods, though, so not particularly economical if you drink a lot of coffee. But it is easy and the coffee is fine.
    - ycombinete 3y ago
      I do weigh the coffee, but only because I’m making a custom mix of pre-ground decaf and caf coffee in the morning (I can’t mix too much caffeine with my Concerta). My favourite methods to date are Moka pot, and French press. So I reckon the vat of coffee approach is probably they way. I reckon my favourite from the hoff video is the Technoworm.
nicolas_17 3y ago
Speaks really badly of the Vision Pro if there's anything that can be compared to Juicero.
LASR 3y ago
> Same as juicero, many people bash the product but the engineering is world class. Absolutely not. Juicero was absolutely terrible engineering. Any mechanical engineering intern can whip up a big chonking hunk of a juicer or any other kind of product in SolidWorks. Filleting every edge does not mean "engineering". The vast majority of the work and difficulty in engineering is NOT getting something to work, but doing so while also working within constraints. There were no constraints in the Juicero. It was impressively manufactured. But terribly engineered. Which is why the entire thing went down despite an absurd level of fundraising.
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  Eh, sometimes the Nuremberg defense is valid. The engineers were just doing what they were paid to do. As I recall from the Bolt teardown [1], if it had been a useful and desirable thing to build in the first place, it would have worked well. 1: https://blog.bolt.io/juicero/ https://blog.bolt.io/juicero/
- jiggawatts 3y ago
  There is a great tear-down video of a juicero on YouTube where the guy makes comments the whole way through about how every part is ridiculously over-engineered: https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    Have to remember that this was a "give away the razor, sell the blades" scheme. If you're the proprietor of such a scheme, you really, really don't want the razor to break. The ballsy thing about Juicero was that they didn't give away the razor. It was priced at something like $400. They were awfully high on their own supply.
    - duskwuff 3y ago
      > It was priced at something like $400. Initially $700!! They dropped the price to $400 after poor sales.
babypuncher 3y ago
Even if the engineering was "world class", it was completely pointless seeing as people could get most of the juice out of the packs by just squeezing them with their bare hands. Though I get the impression they put most of their real engineering effort into their obnoxious juice drm scam, and everything else was just overbuilt to make it feel premium.

Like, maybe, not same as.

I am not sure that I agree. Engineering is a world of tradeoffs. Juicero said "we are going to overbuild every component even if it means the company goes out of business". Welp. Most impressive to me is when every unnecessary component has been removed, and every remaining component is as simple as possible. (The example that sticks in my mind is the humble $5 drip coffee pot. No moving parts except the switch to turn it on!)

ycombinete 3y ago
I’m currently looking at getting a drip coffee pot. Can you recommend one?
- emptybits 3y ago
  I'll jump in here and suggest a Technivorm Moccamaster. As simple as possible but no simpler. It has an "ON" switch. Excellent drip brewer. Widely available. Handmade in EU. Five year warranty. All parts available and serviceable. Design has not changed materially for decades. Certified by European Coffee Brewing Center and the Specialty Coffee Association. Where I'm coming from: I'm picky about coffee making and am not interested in the espresso investment for home. So I made delicious Chemex and Hario pourovers for myself, family, and friends for 15 years because I never thought I'd enjoy the compromises of a drip coffee maker. I was wrong. The Moccamaster makes an excellent half or full carafe, consistently, every time. And I don't suffer Pourover Interruptus on busy mornings. The thermal carafe version was my choice. No regrets.
  - ghc 3y ago
    I'll second this. I've had a Moccamaster for 15 years and I suspect it'll last another 15. The version with the thermal carafe is simple, durable, and makes excellent coffee.
  - ycombinete 3y ago
    Thanks I’ve been looking at that one. I love the aesthetic and simplicity. I’d like an auto start option, but it’s not a deal breaker. Glad to hear you e got such great use out of it!
- olliej 3y ago
  I'm not a coffee connoisseur (and honestly could only spell that because of autocarrot), but for me beans are hands down more important than any other part of the brewing process until you get to absurdly expensive. So we got a Krups grind and brew unit, though the exact model we have isn't available anymore, it's been going strong for maybe 7 years without any issues. It has a hopper you can just fill with beans and it grinds an approximation of the right amount for home much coffee you want (and you can put water in the night before and set it to have coffee brewed when you get up). My only complaint for our particular model is the burr is really loud, but I don't recall if it's always been that loud or it's just beginning to get old. [edit: this is an addendum because I saw u/emptybits suggestion and just wanted to acknowledge that it's a nicer brewer but I'm a pleb and here's the reasoning I have for preferring my lazy-omatic brewer (maybe I should trademark the name?) :D] It's not as expensive (or as nice looking) as the Technivorm that u/emptybits recommends, and I would absolutely expect better extraction from the technivorm as well (at least vs our model, which has the very old school single drip point), but the convenience of a single appliance is honestly more important to me than the price difference. I think there's also an element of how much the ritual of coffee making matters to you? I don't care at all, so it's just an appliance in the corner, and there's the other extreme where people have millions of gadgets and/or siphon brewers (which I admit do look super fun, but they also apparently don't even produce good coffee?). One thing I do wish is there was a thermal carafe option for our unit, even though it does keep the element going to keep the coffee warm I do think that even I can taste some harshness after it's been sitting on the warmer for a while, and then when the warmer does disengage it becomes cold very quickly.
  - ycombinete 3y ago
    Thanks, I like the idea of a grinder. To be honest I’m not even bothered by using ground coffee. Right now I mostly use a Moka pot or french press, with Illy/Lavazza preground coffee.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jrockway 3y ago
  It depends on how much you care about coffee. If you care enough to freshly grind everyday, weigh the coffee, weigh the water, etc. then you probably just want a simple V60 pourover (or Chemex if you want something fancier). Aeropress is also good and my personal favorite brewing method. If you want something to produce a vat of coffee in the morning on a timer, which is totally understandable, there are some good options. Buy whatever James likes here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8eYs2vxT-8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8eYs2vxT-8 (I watched the video 2 years ago and forget ;) The problem I have is keeping coffee fresh for how little I drink. I ended up switching over to a subscription service that just sends me frozen single-cup pods of coffee. It's pretty good and very easy to make; just add to hot water. It's like $70 for 32 pods, though, so not particularly economical if you drink a lot of coffee. But it is easy and the coffee is fine.
  - ycombinete 3y ago
    I do weigh the coffee, but only because I’m making a custom mix of pre-ground decaf and caf coffee in the morning (I can’t mix too much caffeine with my Concerta). My favourite methods to date are Moka pot, and French press. So I reckon the vat of coffee approach is probably they way. I reckon my favourite from the hoff video is the Technoworm.

nicolas_17 3y ago

Speaks really badly of the Vision Pro if there's anything that can be compared to Juicero.

LASR 3y ago

> Same as juicero, many people bash the product but the engineering is world class. Absolutely not. Juicero was absolutely terrible engineering. Any mechanical engineering intern can whip up a big chonking hunk of a juicer or any other kind of product in SolidWorks. Filleting every edge does not mean "engineering". The vast majority of the work and difficulty in engineering is NOT getting something to work, but doing so while also working within constraints. There were no constraints in the Juicero. It was impressively manufactured. But terribly engineered. Which is why the entire thing went down despite an absurd level of fundraising.

CamperBob2 3y ago
Eh, sometimes the Nuremberg defense is valid. The engineers were just doing what they were paid to do. As I recall from the Bolt teardown [1], if it had been a useful and desirable thing to build in the first place, it would have worked well. 1: https://blog.bolt.io/juicero/ https://blog.bolt.io/juicero/
jiggawatts 3y ago
There is a great tear-down video of a juicero on YouTube where the guy makes comments the whole way through about how every part is ridiculously over-engineered: https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  Have to remember that this was a "give away the razor, sell the blades" scheme. If you're the proprietor of such a scheme, you really, really don't want the razor to break. The ballsy thing about Juicero was that they didn't give away the razor. It was priced at something like $400. They were awfully high on their own supply.
  - duskwuff 3y ago
    > It was priced at something like $400. Initially $700!! They dropped the price to $400 after poor sales.

babypuncher 3y ago

Even if the engineering was "world class", it was completely pointless seeing as people could get most of the juice out of the packs by just squeezing them with their bare hands. Though I get the impression they put most of their real engineering effort into their obnoxious juice drm scam, and everything else was just overbuilt to make it feel premium.