5 ms·

Manufacturing electric heaters is a much more simplified and streamlined business model for making money by generating loads of waste heat.

adamgordonbell 3y ago
Sell your miner as a heater. It will still be 100% efficient just also contribute to mining.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Heat pumps are 4-6X more efficient than resistive heaters, so if your goal is just to generate heat, you'll lose to your competitors. In 2024 nobody should be advocating for resistive heating.
  - superkuh 3y ago
    3x, and only when it's just mildly cold instead of actually cold. When it gets actually cold heat pumps stop working, or work at massively reduced efficiency.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      Depends how cold. You can get models that work down to -15/-20F. > High-HSPF heat pumps can handle cold weather. At temperatures below -20°F, cold climate heat pumps still provide dependable heat, and many models are 100% efficient at sub-freezing temperatures. Since they consume less electricity in moderate weather, heat pumps cost much less to operate than legacy systems like combustion furnaces and boilers. For building owners, that means enormous savings over time. So unless you're planning to run them exclusively in the polar tundra, probably still better off with a heat pump. [1] https://www.blocpower.io/posts/cold-climate-heat-pumps https://www.blocpower.io/posts/cold-climate-heat-pumps
      - bluGill 3y ago
        This is Canada - it gets colder than -20F most winters. Sure you should have a heat pump if you live there, but there will be days when you cannot use them. If you live right on the ocean shore you might get a mild enough climate to not need backup, but most of Canada is not that. (though the population may tend that way)
        arcticbull 3y ago
        > If you live right on the ocean shore you might get a mild enough climate to not need backup, but most of Canada is not that. (though the population may tend that way) There are high-efficiency heat pumps that you can use most of the time, and to my knowledge at least in Ontario, most of the heat pump setups I've seen use a heat pump with a back-up heater for days it gets too cold. And that's fine, it saves a ton of money over the course of the year vs. running resistive. 90% of people in Canada live within 100 miles (160km) of the US border and most people live in pretty moderate climates. The low-temperature heat pumps I've seen work down to -20F (-30C). It's not -30C anywhere in Canada people live for much of the year. Even Winnipeg you'll only get into the danger zone a few weeks of the year. If you live in Alert, feel free to stick to resistive.
        bluGill 3y ago
        Those really cold days matter though. You cannot say a HVAC system is good enough if it doesn't work on the coldest day while the system is installed. Even if it is only for 1 night every 15 years that you get down to -30C - that is not acceptable. Which is why you need some backup system. Even down in Iowa (quite a bit south of Winnipeg) I've seen -30C in the last 10 years.
        arcticbull 3y ago
        In case I wasn't clear (and on re-reading, I may not have been) I mean it shouldn't be advocated for as a means of primary heating. Of course if you need it as a back-up then get it. However, using it once in a while materially changes the economics involved in both mining (negatively) and heating/cooling (positively).
  - suoduandao3 3y ago
    No... but functional currencies aren't free either. If a miner could run a heat pump via a Stirling engine it'd be even better.
bluGill 3y ago
If you need the waste heat then there is no downside to mining bitcoin to get it. Over a few years you will pay off the computer. However even in Canada most of the time you are better off with a heat pump to create heat. On the really cold days heat pumps don't work (unless you have a ground source which is expensive to install) and there are not enough of those days that you can pay off the bitcoin machine. If you have the option on those really cold days you save money by burning natural gas (at least now) in a modern furnance. I'm not sure what the energy mix is in Canada, but at least some people there create less environmental impact by burning natural gas.
nativeit 3y ago
I’m frankly delighted by the discussion my smarmy remark ignited.

adamgordonbell 3y ago

Sell your miner as a heater. It will still be 100% efficient just also contribute to mining.

arcticbull 3y ago
Heat pumps are 4-6X more efficient than resistive heaters, so if your goal is just to generate heat, you'll lose to your competitors. In 2024 nobody should be advocating for resistive heating.
- superkuh 3y ago
  3x, and only when it's just mildly cold instead of actually cold. When it gets actually cold heat pumps stop working, or work at massively reduced efficiency.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Depends how cold. You can get models that work down to -15/-20F. > High-HSPF heat pumps can handle cold weather. At temperatures below -20°F, cold climate heat pumps still provide dependable heat, and many models are 100% efficient at sub-freezing temperatures. Since they consume less electricity in moderate weather, heat pumps cost much less to operate than legacy systems like combustion furnaces and boilers. For building owners, that means enormous savings over time. So unless you're planning to run them exclusively in the polar tundra, probably still better off with a heat pump. [1] https://www.blocpower.io/posts/cold-climate-heat-pumps https://www.blocpower.io/posts/cold-climate-heat-pumps
    - bluGill 3y ago
      This is Canada - it gets colder than -20F most winters. Sure you should have a heat pump if you live there, but there will be days when you cannot use them. If you live right on the ocean shore you might get a mild enough climate to not need backup, but most of Canada is not that. (though the population may tend that way)
      - arcticbull 3y ago
        > If you live right on the ocean shore you might get a mild enough climate to not need backup, but most of Canada is not that. (though the population may tend that way) There are high-efficiency heat pumps that you can use most of the time, and to my knowledge at least in Ontario, most of the heat pump setups I've seen use a heat pump with a back-up heater for days it gets too cold. And that's fine, it saves a ton of money over the course of the year vs. running resistive. 90% of people in Canada live within 100 miles (160km) of the US border and most people live in pretty moderate climates. The low-temperature heat pumps I've seen work down to -20F (-30C). It's not -30C anywhere in Canada people live for much of the year. Even Winnipeg you'll only get into the danger zone a few weeks of the year. If you live in Alert, feel free to stick to resistive.
        bluGill 3y ago
        Those really cold days matter though. You cannot say a HVAC system is good enough if it doesn't work on the coldest day while the system is installed. Even if it is only for 1 night every 15 years that you get down to -30C - that is not acceptable. Which is why you need some backup system. Even down in Iowa (quite a bit south of Winnipeg) I've seen -30C in the last 10 years.
        arcticbull 3y ago
        In case I wasn't clear (and on re-reading, I may not have been) I mean it shouldn't be advocated for as a means of primary heating. Of course if you need it as a back-up then get it. However, using it once in a while materially changes the economics involved in both mining (negatively) and heating/cooling (positively).
- suoduandao3 3y ago
  No... but functional currencies aren't free either. If a miner could run a heat pump via a Stirling engine it'd be even better.

bluGill 3y ago

If you need the waste heat then there is no downside to mining bitcoin to get it. Over a few years you will pay off the computer. However even in Canada most of the time you are better off with a heat pump to create heat. On the really cold days heat pumps don't work (unless you have a ground source which is expensive to install) and there are not enough of those days that you can pay off the bitcoin machine. If you have the option on those really cold days you save money by burning natural gas (at least now) in a modern furnance. I'm not sure what the energy mix is in Canada, but at least some people there create less environmental impact by burning natural gas.

nativeit 3y ago

I’m frankly delighted by the discussion my smarmy remark ignited.