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Perfect! Your experience is the exact experience hoped for. Many people give up on learning to meditation because they cannot clear their mind for X minutes st

Perfect! Your experience is the exact experience hoped for. Many people give up on learning to meditation because they cannot clear their mind for X minutes straight. Their mind runs away, and they must bring it back to focus. They see this as failure. Yet, this is exactly what is expected. How else to learn the invaluable skill of refocusing after distraction. If staring at a circle was so stimulating you never got distracted, then you would have no chance to build your focus muscles. Note: this comment is mostly about the first steps into meditation. I learned this idea from Shinzo Young.

JohnFen 3y ago
> Many people give up on learning to meditation because they cannot clear their mind for X minutes straight. Their mind runs away, and they must bring it back to focus. They see this as failure. Yes, this is a real block for lots of people. When I was teaching my children to meditate, I tried to head this off a bit by telling them "you'll probably find that your headvoice will keep chattering away at first. Let it. Don't really fight it. Just acknowledge without judgment, clear your mind again, and keep meditating. Your mind will grow quieter on its own as you practice more."
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  I'll share my ship trick. This is for those of you that live by the bay. Needs a clear day but no Otis Redding song necessary. Where I live it takes about a 20-30 mins for a ship that left the harbour to disappear over the horizon. As it leaves I can see all the details, the name of the ship, the containers or people. Lots to think about and observe. I don't take my eyes off it. Gradually it turns into a smaller and smaller square, and eventually a dot. All that it is, all the people and cargo and funnels become an ever smaller world. Somehow that grabs and keeps my focus. Actually started to do it as an exercise for vision from too much screen time. Apparently it helps to focus on a distant object and I think... maybe... hmm... maybe it helps. But anyway, after a half hour of watching a dot vanish over the horizon, it leaves you with a _good_ feeling. Like I used to get from astronomy before moving to the city. YMMV.
- kccqzy 3y ago
  If I let my head voice chatter away, I never get the opportunity to clear my mind. The entire meditation session would simply become a sort of internal monologue, jumping from idea to idea.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    What I meant by that is more "don't fight it", as in "don't let it dismay you, bring you stress, and don't judge the fact that it happens." That it happens is not a failure at all. It's normal. Just acknowledge and recenter. When people first start meditating, they often find it very difficult to get a "quiet moment" and think that's a sign that they're doing something wrong or something isn't working. Neither of those things are true, and while you might get just a few seconds of "quiet" at first, as you practice more, that time will expand. The basic point is that it's part of the normal progression (of anything, really). When you're doing anything new, you're going to suck at it at first and improve as you keep doing it. It's counterproductive to feel bad about the stage where you aren't good at it, and giving those judgemental feelings power can cause an unwarranted discouraging force.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      The most useful analogy for me is that it is similar to lifting weights. You don't go to the gym and just hold a weight in tension for 60 minutes. You lift for a moment and relax for a moment, over and over and over. In meditation you're not (often) purposely "letting go" the way you do while lifting, but your brain will do that anyway. That's fine. The important thing is you engage again. Each time you detect your attention drifting and you bring it back to your practice is another "rep" of the workout. Hold it for as long as you can, and when you detect it's drifted again (as it will), you've already started another rep!
bayindirh 3y ago
> Many people give up on learning to meditation because they cannot clear their mind for X minutes straight. Their mind runs away, and they must bring it back to focus. They see this as failure. This is what we say to our students. It'll run away. Just bring it back. It's OK. The tool is great, BTW. Congrats. My only small gripe is the pulsation is too fast (for me). My relaxed breathe is 5 seconds inhale, 5 seconds exhale.
- theonething 3y ago
  > pulsation is too fast (for me) Was it my imagination or did the rate change? It seemed to slow down a bit at the end. If it doesn't, that might be a good feature; a progressive slowdown and perhaps a config to change overall rate.
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    Yes, the rate slows down, but I start with 5/5 directly. I think it's a result of meditating for a long time.
    - jimmydddd 3y ago
      Are we supposed to syncing breathing with the pulsing? Or are we just assuming that based on similar apps for breathing?
      - bayindirh 3y ago
        I think the pulsation is there to help regulate the breathing. Many people take fast and shallow breaths, esp. when they are stressed out. Because evening out the speed and taking deeper breaths help calming down with a couple of mechanisms.
        datameta 3y ago
        It seems to me it starts off a bit too fast. But I like the rate at which it slows.
MisterBastahrd 3y ago
Some people give up because their brains simply don't work that way. I decided to start going to a therapist for some issues I've encountered over the years. He took my background information and immediately dove into an entire diatribe about meditation. Without addressing a single thing I actually said. The thing is, I've attempted meditation over the years. Not only had I already read all of his recommended source material AND watched the videos he recommended, but I knew other sources that I rattled off to him as well, including entire books on controlled breathing. I spent 2 years with it and never got anywhere. It does not work for me and I'm not putting myself through it again. I've got three or four separate trains of thought going on at all times. It's impossible to put a cork in all of them, it isn't helpful, and it's about as useful as prayer is to an atheist. Asking someone who has been abused as a child to instead stare into the abyss is a cop-out. Meditation as a solution to depression and anxiety doesn't bring me calm. It makes me angry.
- oldandboring 3y ago
  Yes, this. There's almost an inverse "no true Scotsman" element to the way mindfulness and meditation are taught and spoken about. No such thing as failure, no such thing as doing it correctly, doing it at all is better than not doing it. All based on the unproven premise that it's a positive thing for everyone and/or that everyone will be able to get stronger at it with practice. Seemingly no consideration to divergent neurotypes, psychological trauma, physical limitations, or deep cultural differences. It reminds me of: years ago I came across a book profiling the journey of a young western Jewish man seeking a path in Zen Buddhism, studying under gurus with other seekers in monasteries. As he progressed through his meditative practice he couldn't avoid feeling unsettled by the sense that none of it was "working" for him no matter how deeply he understood and how much he practiced. The gurus all just kept trying to help him improve his practice. Until he came to the most enlightened and compassionate guru who basically let him off the hook, saying, in essence, that this stuff will never stick to him and that he's just meant to practice Judaism.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - 3y ago
jdelman 3y ago
Who is Shinzo Young? I just did a Google search for that name and this comment was the first thing to show up.
- thx4allthefish 3y ago
  I believe it is Shinzen Young
  - Hnrobert42 3y ago
    Yes. Stupid autocorrect.
bordercases 3y ago
Breathing slowly is a way to short circuit the mind.

JohnFen 3y ago

> Many people give up on learning to meditation because they cannot clear their mind for X minutes straight. Their mind runs away, and they must bring it back to focus. They see this as failure. Yes, this is a real block for lots of people. When I was teaching my children to meditate, I tried to head this off a bit by telling them "you'll probably find that your headvoice will keep chattering away at first. Let it. Don't really fight it. Just acknowledge without judgment, clear your mind again, and keep meditating. Your mind will grow quieter on its own as you practice more."

nonrandomstring 3y ago
I'll share my ship trick. This is for those of you that live by the bay. Needs a clear day but no Otis Redding song necessary. Where I live it takes about a 20-30 mins for a ship that left the harbour to disappear over the horizon. As it leaves I can see all the details, the name of the ship, the containers or people. Lots to think about and observe. I don't take my eyes off it. Gradually it turns into a smaller and smaller square, and eventually a dot. All that it is, all the people and cargo and funnels become an ever smaller world. Somehow that grabs and keeps my focus. Actually started to do it as an exercise for vision from too much screen time. Apparently it helps to focus on a distant object and I think... maybe... hmm... maybe it helps. But anyway, after a half hour of watching a dot vanish over the horizon, it leaves you with a _good_ feeling. Like I used to get from astronomy before moving to the city. YMMV.
kccqzy 3y ago
If I let my head voice chatter away, I never get the opportunity to clear my mind. The entire meditation session would simply become a sort of internal monologue, jumping from idea to idea.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  What I meant by that is more "don't fight it", as in "don't let it dismay you, bring you stress, and don't judge the fact that it happens." That it happens is not a failure at all. It's normal. Just acknowledge and recenter. When people first start meditating, they often find it very difficult to get a "quiet moment" and think that's a sign that they're doing something wrong or something isn't working. Neither of those things are true, and while you might get just a few seconds of "quiet" at first, as you practice more, that time will expand. The basic point is that it's part of the normal progression (of anything, really). When you're doing anything new, you're going to suck at it at first and improve as you keep doing it. It's counterproductive to feel bad about the stage where you aren't good at it, and giving those judgemental feelings power can cause an unwarranted discouraging force.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    The most useful analogy for me is that it is similar to lifting weights. You don't go to the gym and just hold a weight in tension for 60 minutes. You lift for a moment and relax for a moment, over and over and over. In meditation you're not (often) purposely "letting go" the way you do while lifting, but your brain will do that anyway. That's fine. The important thing is you engage again. Each time you detect your attention drifting and you bring it back to your practice is another "rep" of the workout. Hold it for as long as you can, and when you detect it's drifted again (as it will), you've already started another rep!

bayindirh 3y ago

> Many people give up on learning to meditation because they cannot clear their mind for X minutes straight. Their mind runs away, and they must bring it back to focus. They see this as failure. This is what we say to our students. It'll run away. Just bring it back. It's OK. The tool is great, BTW. Congrats. My only small gripe is the pulsation is too fast (for me). My relaxed breathe is 5 seconds inhale, 5 seconds exhale.

theonething 3y ago
> pulsation is too fast (for me) Was it my imagination or did the rate change? It seemed to slow down a bit at the end. If it doesn't, that might be a good feature; a progressive slowdown and perhaps a config to change overall rate.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  Yes, the rate slows down, but I start with 5/5 directly. I think it's a result of meditating for a long time.
  - jimmydddd 3y ago
    Are we supposed to syncing breathing with the pulsing? Or are we just assuming that based on similar apps for breathing?
    - bayindirh 3y ago
      I think the pulsation is there to help regulate the breathing. Many people take fast and shallow breaths, esp. when they are stressed out. Because evening out the speed and taking deeper breaths help calming down with a couple of mechanisms.
      - datameta 3y ago
        It seems to me it starts off a bit too fast. But I like the rate at which it slows.

MisterBastahrd 3y ago

Some people give up because their brains simply don't work that way. I decided to start going to a therapist for some issues I've encountered over the years. He took my background information and immediately dove into an entire diatribe about meditation. Without addressing a single thing I actually said. The thing is, I've attempted meditation over the years. Not only had I already read all of his recommended source material AND watched the videos he recommended, but I knew other sources that I rattled off to him as well, including entire books on controlled breathing. I spent 2 years with it and never got anywhere. It does not work for me and I'm not putting myself through it again. I've got three or four separate trains of thought going on at all times. It's impossible to put a cork in all of them, it isn't helpful, and it's about as useful as prayer is to an atheist. Asking someone who has been abused as a child to instead stare into the abyss is a cop-out. Meditation as a solution to depression and anxiety doesn't bring me calm. It makes me angry.

oldandboring 3y ago
Yes, this. There's almost an inverse "no true Scotsman" element to the way mindfulness and meditation are taught and spoken about. No such thing as failure, no such thing as doing it correctly, doing it at all is better than not doing it. All based on the unproven premise that it's a positive thing for everyone and/or that everyone will be able to get stronger at it with practice. Seemingly no consideration to divergent neurotypes, psychological trauma, physical limitations, or deep cultural differences. It reminds me of: years ago I came across a book profiling the journey of a young western Jewish man seeking a path in Zen Buddhism, studying under gurus with other seekers in monasteries. As he progressed through his meditative practice he couldn't avoid feeling unsettled by the sense that none of it was "working" for him no matter how deeply he understood and how much he practiced. The gurus all just kept trying to help him improve his practice. Until he came to the most enlightened and compassionate guru who basically let him off the hook, saying, in essence, that this stuff will never stick to him and that he's just meant to practice Judaism.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- 3y ago

jdelman 3y ago

Who is Shinzo Young? I just did a Google search for that name and this comment was the first thing to show up.

thx4allthefish 3y ago
I believe it is Shinzen Young
- Hnrobert42 3y ago
  Yes. Stupid autocorrect.

bordercases 3y ago

Breathing slowly is a way to short circuit the mind.