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I like this, but I do think it misses the social stuff. Just a few neurotic/unethical people can completely ruin a team and make all the best people quit. I fin

by smeeth 3y ago

I like this, but I do think it misses the social stuff. Just a few neurotic/unethical people can completely ruin a team and make all the best people quit. I find this to be extra true on diverse teams (all types of diversity).

CharlieDigital 3y ago
Yes, I now call this "vibes".
- babyshake 3y ago
  This is an interesting area because there's a lot of room for debate about what a good "vibe" is. Is being really positive all the time the right vibe? In many/most office environments, it is considered to be the right vibe. In a small startup where you're trying to validate PMF, it's not necessarily the best vibe IMO.
  - CharlieDigital 3y ago
    "Vibe" isn't so easy defined as being positive; more like the way you interact feels "natural" and doesn't lead to negative emotions. In a startup, lots of mistakes will be made. A team with the right vibe knows and acknowledges this, but focuses on fixing the problems rather than finger pointing. In that sense, "vibe" is not inherent to the individual, but I like to think of it as "we're on the same wavelength" when it comes to key things. So it really means "does this person fit with this team and this mission?" -- "vibes" sums that up for me.
jprete 3y ago
As nineplay@ remarked elsewhere, "there's a nauseating bias here against people who've had horrific childhoods". Unethical is one thing, neuroticism should not be a disqualifier from decent employment.
- 93po 3y ago
  neuroticism, no. asocial or antisocial behavior, yes.
  - ok_dad 3y ago
    Asocial? I guess autistic people are out! I assume you’re young: there are many reasons people might be perfectly good at a job but not want to socialize with those people, or any other people. This whole thread makes me sad as an unemployed autistic person. HN folks are horrible hiring managers! Edit: and now downvoted for showing you losers that your personal model of the world and the people in it might be lacking; fuck vc tech bros.
    - ska 3y ago
      I suspect you may be interpreting this a bit too broadly, and it's obviously personal for you. Part of work is, nearly invariably, social. Not wanting to get Friday beers with the team shouldn't really be a factor. Not being able to communicate smoothly and effectively with them in a work context absolutely is. I suspect the poster you are responding to is focusing on the latter, and you on the former.
      - ok_dad 3y ago
        That’s a good insight there, thanks
      - khzw8yyy 3y ago
        Then there are some of us for whom this smooth communication is a huge challenge. We spend a lot of time and energy masking, trying to fake the perfect vibe (and failing of course, because the result is predictably unnatural), but this is a necessary survival tactic. This is why all the talk of valuing neurodiversity is BS. The leaders want an autistic savant without the autistic part. Playing one is exhausting and can never be done perfectly. The problem as I see it is that people tend to see communication issues as a character flaw. They don't think it's a handicap like poor vision or a broken leg, but must stem from laziness or worse.

by smeeth 3y ago

CharlieDigital 3y ago

Yes, I now call this "vibes".

babyshake 3y ago
This is an interesting area because there's a lot of room for debate about what a good "vibe" is. Is being really positive all the time the right vibe? In many/most office environments, it is considered to be the right vibe. In a small startup where you're trying to validate PMF, it's not necessarily the best vibe IMO.
- CharlieDigital 3y ago
  "Vibe" isn't so easy defined as being positive; more like the way you interact feels "natural" and doesn't lead to negative emotions. In a startup, lots of mistakes will be made. A team with the right vibe knows and acknowledges this, but focuses on fixing the problems rather than finger pointing. In that sense, "vibe" is not inherent to the individual, but I like to think of it as "we're on the same wavelength" when it comes to key things. So it really means "does this person fit with this team and this mission?" -- "vibes" sums that up for me.

jprete 3y ago

As nineplay@ remarked elsewhere, "there's a nauseating bias here against people who've had horrific childhoods". Unethical is one thing, neuroticism should not be a disqualifier from decent employment.

93po 3y ago
neuroticism, no. asocial or antisocial behavior, yes.
- ok_dad 3y ago
  Asocial? I guess autistic people are out! I assume you’re young: there are many reasons people might be perfectly good at a job but not want to socialize with those people, or any other people. This whole thread makes me sad as an unemployed autistic person. HN folks are horrible hiring managers! Edit: and now downvoted for showing you losers that your personal model of the world and the people in it might be lacking; fuck vc tech bros.
  - ska 3y ago
    I suspect you may be interpreting this a bit too broadly, and it's obviously personal for you. Part of work is, nearly invariably, social. Not wanting to get Friday beers with the team shouldn't really be a factor. Not being able to communicate smoothly and effectively with them in a work context absolutely is. I suspect the poster you are responding to is focusing on the latter, and you on the former.
    - ok_dad 3y ago
      That’s a good insight there, thanks
    - khzw8yyy 3y ago
      Then there are some of us for whom this smooth communication is a huge challenge. We spend a lot of time and energy masking, trying to fake the perfect vibe (and failing of course, because the result is predictably unnatural), but this is a necessary survival tactic. This is why all the talk of valuing neurodiversity is BS. The leaders want an autistic savant without the autistic part. Playing one is exhausting and can never be done perfectly. The problem as I see it is that people tend to see communication issues as a character flaw. They don't think it's a handicap like poor vision or a broken leg, but must stem from laziness or worse.