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Toyota has probably shipped more battery capacity in hybrid cars than most EV manufacturers to date. They don't need to catch up to anything.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
5 million prius * 14 kWhr 5 million tesla * 50 kWhr This is probably true, hybrids may win in the US market in the short term until they are outlawed?
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  They'll never be outlawed. There are too many use cases for 300+ mile trips in remote areas where recharging isn't possible or less remote areas where it isn't practical.
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    There are laws in effect already: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/governor-newsom-announces-california-will-phase-out-gasoline-powered-cars-drastically-reduce-demand-for-fossil-fuel-in-californias-fight-against-climate-change/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/governor-newsom-announces-...
    - katbyte 3y ago
      If it’s anything like Canada it still allows for hybrid. Banning everything but BEV will never happen because Bev will never work for a small subset of users
      - riku_iki 3y ago
        they have similar law in Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-electric-vehicles-2035-1.7063993#:~:text=The%20federal%20government%20is%20laying,targets%20for%20manufacturers%20to%20meet https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-electric-vehicles-20....
        katbyte 3y ago
        That’s literally the one I was talking about, it will still permit hybrid and there is no requirement for everything to be a BEV
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > it will still permit hybrid article says plugin hybrid, not just hybrid, which is kinda loophole.
        katbyte 3y ago
        a hybrid is still a hybrid that you can just keep filling up with gas and never plug-in.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        yes, though in California cars required to be 0 emission by 2035
        katbyte 3y ago
        no? it seems to be the exact same rules as canada? > new cars sold in 2035 and beyond are zero-emission vehicles which includes battery electric vehicles, plug-in hybrid electric vehicles and fuel cell electric vehicles.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        I can't find any mentions of hybrids nor plugins in actual executive order: https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/9.23.20-EO-N-79-20-Climate.pdf https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/9.23.20-EO... it just says: zero emission, and hybrids are obviously not
        katbyte 3y ago
- petre 3y ago
  > until they are outlawed? In the US? When hell freezes over. In the Nederlands? Probably in 5-6 years.
josefresco 3y ago
They're still killing it with hybrids and the rest of the industry, having realized that "all electric" is a little too early, is scrambling. The RAV4 is the top selling "SUV" in America(1) and it looks like close to 50% of those are the hybrid model. 1. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars... In 2022 it was 48%: https://evstatistics.com/2022/07/48-of-1h-2022-toyota-rav4-sales-were-hybrid-and-phev/ https://evstatistics.com/2022/07/48-of-1h-2022-toyota-rav4-s...
- stetrain 3y ago
  If Toyota shipped the same annual battery capacity as Tesla then they could sell 100% of their vehicles as hybrid or plug-in hybrid instead of 30%.
stetrain 3y ago
This might be true cumulatively but certainly isn't true on an annual basis anymore. If Toyota were shipping the same battery capacity as Tesla they could make every car they sell globally a hybrid or plug-in hybrid and they are at about 30% of that.
- woobar 3y ago
  You are assuming that 100% of Toyota customers want to buy EV vehicles.
  - stetrain 3y ago
    I wasn’t, but who wouldn’t want a hybrid?
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    How many EVs does Toyota sell each year? A few thousand or perhaps tens of thousands? It's at best a rounding error. Not something Toyota customers really have to worry about.

mensetmanusman 3y ago

5 million prius * 14 kWhr 5 million tesla * 50 kWhr This is probably true, hybrids may win in the US market in the short term until they are outlawed?

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
They'll never be outlawed. There are too many use cases for 300+ mile trips in remote areas where recharging isn't possible or less remote areas where it isn't practical.
- riku_iki 3y ago
  There are laws in effect already: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/governor-newsom-announces-california-will-phase-out-gasoline-powered-cars-drastically-reduce-demand-for-fossil-fuel-in-californias-fight-against-climate-change/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/governor-newsom-announces-...
  - katbyte 3y ago
    If it’s anything like Canada it still allows for hybrid. Banning everything but BEV will never happen because Bev will never work for a small subset of users
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      they have similar law in Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-electric-vehicles-2035-1.7063993#:~:text=The%20federal%20government%20is%20laying,targets%20for%20manufacturers%20to%20meet https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-electric-vehicles-20....
      - katbyte 3y ago
        That’s literally the one I was talking about, it will still permit hybrid and there is no requirement for everything to be a BEV
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > it will still permit hybrid article says plugin hybrid, not just hybrid, which is kinda loophole.
        katbyte 3y ago
        a hybrid is still a hybrid that you can just keep filling up with gas and never plug-in.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        yes, though in California cars required to be 0 emission by 2035
        katbyte 3y ago
        no? it seems to be the exact same rules as canada? > new cars sold in 2035 and beyond are zero-emission vehicles which includes battery electric vehicles, plug-in hybrid electric vehicles and fuel cell electric vehicles.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        I can't find any mentions of hybrids nor plugins in actual executive order: https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/9.23.20-EO-N-79-20-Climate.pdf https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/9.23.20-EO... it just says: zero emission, and hybrids are obviously not
        katbyte 3y ago
petre 3y ago
> until they are outlawed? In the US? When hell freezes over. In the Nederlands? Probably in 5-6 years.

josefresco 3y ago

They're still killing it with hybrids and the rest of the industry, having realized that "all electric" is a little too early, is scrambling. The RAV4 is the top selling "SUV" in America(1) and it looks like close to 50% of those are the hybrid model. 1. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars... In 2022 it was 48%: https://evstatistics.com/2022/07/48-of-1h-2022-toyota-rav4-sales-were-hybrid-and-phev/ https://evstatistics.com/2022/07/48-of-1h-2022-toyota-rav4-s...

stetrain 3y ago
If Toyota shipped the same annual battery capacity as Tesla then they could sell 100% of their vehicles as hybrid or plug-in hybrid instead of 30%.

stetrain 3y ago

This might be true cumulatively but certainly isn't true on an annual basis anymore. If Toyota were shipping the same battery capacity as Tesla they could make every car they sell globally a hybrid or plug-in hybrid and they are at about 30% of that.

woobar 3y ago
You are assuming that 100% of Toyota customers want to buy EV vehicles.
- stetrain 3y ago
  I wasn’t, but who wouldn’t want a hybrid?
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  How many EVs does Toyota sell each year? A few thousand or perhaps tens of thousands? It's at best a rounding error. Not something Toyota customers really have to worry about.