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7thaccount 3y ago
Nobody is arguing that they shouldn't teach tech at all. When they're talking about bans, they're likely referring to for general classes (math, English, science...etc) and would of course be happy with a computer class that teaches typing, Excel, PPT, and some actual computer/STEM stuff like basic programming. It may sound old fashioned, but books work just as well for most classes with a lot less distraction. Assuming you let your kid watch a little TV or play video games...they're no longer getting 1-2 hours of screen time per day like we did, but rather more like 5-6 hours per day which is likely not healthy. (Story Time) I had a crazy woman teach a computer elective in highschool, but she made sure everyone left the class typing efficiently without looking and we all knew how to use Excel and PPT. It really helped in college engineering and of course in the work force knowing a little Excel. The ppt stuff sounds ludicrous, but I use it a LOT at work as research and analysis is often summarized and presented to less technical stakeholders in that format. TBH, she basically made sure we were experts in the blue collar aspects of computing that office workers everywhere use. She also taught some history of computing and made sure we all knew common computer terminology like what OS, GUI, DOS, RAM, ROM...etc all meant. In hindsight it was a pretty useful class. The weirdest thing in the class...the teacher had a question on the final that asked which book of the Bible was most like the history of computing. All of us 8th-10th graders were absolutely dumbfounded where this bizzare question came from. Apparently the answer was Exodus, but she couldn't explain to us why and indicated it should be obvious if we had seen Pirates of Silicon Valley.
aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> If anything, the real issue is that the current school laptops suck. If anything, schools are failing profoundly in preparing kids for a technological world. I would rather claim that this is a preparation for the corporate world where (except for the technology sector) work computers suck and are filled with corporate spyware. :-)
kergonath 3y ago
> If anything, schools are failing profoundly in preparing kids for a technological world. This argument is often made (and also wrt preparing pupils for their professional life). I don’t think it the reasons you imply are right. The problem is that nothing they could use now in school will prepare them for what they will need to use in the future. The software, tools and devices they will need will change as technology keeps evolving. What they need to learn is the basics, how to adapt to a new platform and core OPSEC principles. And they can learn that on pretty much anything. > We need more hackers. I was a kid of the 1990s, I know what you mean. But I also was a hacker. We had access to computers at school, which was great. But we did not have to use them all the time for things that are better done by other means of communication. My kid just spent a couple of hours doing some programming on his school laptop, which is fantastic. What is not is requiring the same laptop to take exams with bullshit spyware and requiring it in the classroom for lectures that would be better without them. Then, they are a distraction and they do not help. > I just spent three hours last night working on spanish homework on a school supplied chromebook with a high schooler, and it was pathetic how bad the UX was, how poorly the laptop performed, and just how painful the entire experience is. Yes, Chromebooks are terrible. They are actually a hindrance more than anything else.
- whywhywhywhy 3y ago
  > Yes, Chromebooks are terrible. They are actually a hindrance more than anything else. School budgets for student laptops cap out around $300 and they get cheaper if they're able to. It's a challenge to build a quality device at that price point, even more of a challenge to actually make money doing so. This isn't an argument schools should have more money, they have plenty and some of the areas with terrible performance are spending a fortune a year per student, more a criticism of where that money is going if this is the tool they're supposed to learn with and it's not being spent there.
  - kergonath 3y ago
    > School budgets for student laptops cap out around $300 and they get cheaper if they're able to. It's a challenge to build a quality device at that price point, even more of a challenge to actually make money doing so. I know. Schools already tend to be under-funded in a lot of countries (on average, obviously there are local variations, as you say). But at the same time shoddy computers are not very useful either. I don’t have an easy solution.

Nobody is arguing that they shouldn't teach tech at all. When they're talking about bans, they're likely referring to for general classes (math, English, science...etc) and would of course be happy with a computer class that teaches typing, Excel, PPT, and some actual computer/STEM stuff like basic programming. It may sound old fashioned, but books work just as well for most classes with a lot less distraction. Assuming you let your kid watch a little TV or play video games...they're no longer getting 1-2 hours of screen time per day like we did, but rather more like 5-6 hours per day which is likely not healthy. (Story Time) I had a crazy woman teach a computer elective in highschool, but she made sure everyone left the class typing efficiently without looking and we all knew how to use Excel and PPT. It really helped in college engineering and of course in the work force knowing a little Excel. The ppt stuff sounds ludicrous, but I use it a LOT at work as research and analysis is often summarized and presented to less technical stakeholders in that format. TBH, she basically made sure we were experts in the blue collar aspects of computing that office workers everywhere use. She also taught some history of computing and made sure we all knew common computer terminology like what OS, GUI, DOS, RAM, ROM...etc all meant. In hindsight it was a pretty useful class. The weirdest thing in the class...the teacher had a question on the final that asked which book of the Bible was most like the history of computing. All of us 8th-10th graders were absolutely dumbfounded where this bizzare question came from. Apparently the answer was Exodus, but she couldn't explain to us why and indicated it should be obvious if we had seen Pirates of Silicon Valley.

aleph_minus_one 3y ago

> If anything, the real issue is that the current school laptops suck. If anything, schools are failing profoundly in preparing kids for a technological world. I would rather claim that this is a preparation for the corporate world where (except for the technology sector) work computers suck and are filled with corporate spyware. :-)

kergonath 3y ago

> If anything, schools are failing profoundly in preparing kids for a technological world. This argument is often made (and also wrt preparing pupils for their professional life). I don’t think it the reasons you imply are right. The problem is that nothing they could use now in school will prepare them for what they will need to use in the future. The software, tools and devices they will need will change as technology keeps evolving. What they need to learn is the basics, how to adapt to a new platform and core OPSEC principles. And they can learn that on pretty much anything. > We need more hackers. I was a kid of the 1990s, I know what you mean. But I also was a hacker. We had access to computers at school, which was great. But we did not have to use them all the time for things that are better done by other means of communication. My kid just spent a couple of hours doing some programming on his school laptop, which is fantastic. What is not is requiring the same laptop to take exams with bullshit spyware and requiring it in the classroom for lectures that would be better without them. Then, they are a distraction and they do not help. > I just spent three hours last night working on spanish homework on a school supplied chromebook with a high schooler, and it was pathetic how bad the UX was, how poorly the laptop performed, and just how painful the entire experience is. Yes, Chromebooks are terrible. They are actually a hindrance more than anything else.

whywhywhywhy 3y ago
> Yes, Chromebooks are terrible. They are actually a hindrance more than anything else. School budgets for student laptops cap out around $300 and they get cheaper if they're able to. It's a challenge to build a quality device at that price point, even more of a challenge to actually make money doing so. This isn't an argument schools should have more money, they have plenty and some of the areas with terrible performance are spending a fortune a year per student, more a criticism of where that money is going if this is the tool they're supposed to learn with and it's not being spent there.
- kergonath 3y ago
  > School budgets for student laptops cap out around $300 and they get cheaper if they're able to. It's a challenge to build a quality device at that price point, even more of a challenge to actually make money doing so. I know. Schools already tend to be under-funded in a lot of countries (on average, obviously there are local variations, as you say). But at the same time shoddy computers are not very useful either. I don’t have an easy solution.