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>you'll probably need a degree You may be right, but I see the phrase above as code for "college graduates discriminate against people without degrees". Noti

by nirvana 14y ago

>you'll probably need a degree You may be right, but I see the phrase above as code for "college graduates discriminate against people without degrees". Notice you didn't say "You'll need the skills a degree gives you". The reality is, you can get skills in a variety of ways. Most people who switch careers don't do thinks they have no skills in, they find a better use for the skills they do have. I don't see how college forces you to be exposed to the world, as in college you're just continuing the insular educational perspective of high school. Sure, its a little broader, but its still the ivory tower perspective. Going out and getting a job and being responsible for your monthly rent is the splash of cold water.... and also exposes you to all kinds of people you won't meet on a college campus full of students and professors. I agree with you on the year off to travel, but working for a random startup for that year would be hugely rewarding as well. >programming as we know it today may not exist in 20 years. If the way we know it today it doesn't exist in 20 years then you'll be no worse off than the college graduate who now has a useless degree and 16 years of experience. >A little startup isn't worth screwing up that experience. Until you've started a business, you don't really know what business is really like. A "little startup" is the experience, if you want to be an entrepreneur. Doing on one the side in college is fine if you want to have it go both ways. Its only the first job out of college where they care about your grades.

keiferski 14y ago
1. I don't make the hiring decisions at most companies. Fact is, at most companies outside of the HN-SV-tech startup world, a degree shows that you're competent, and you're facing an uphill battle without one. 2. College exposes you to subjects that you normally wouldn't be exposed to. Being an engineer is a respectable profession, but if you've never actually tried other subjects, how could you know if it's the right career for you? Or for that matter, how would you be exposed to some of the best things in life, like literature and art? Sure, you could just go to the library, but quite frankly, most people don't know what they don't know. College isn't going to make you into a Renaissance man, but a few years of courses in various subjects will help you develop into a more well-rounded person. 3. I agree that outside-the-classroom experience is essential, but working at a random startup company isn't going to expose you to anything except running a business and the narrow niche it occupies. Great stuff for learning about entrepreneurship, but useless when it comes to basically anything else. You aren't going to learn about humanism or the philosophy of science at your web 2.0 app startup. 4. You'd have a degree, which shows a baseline of competence and is required for advancement in many companies. 5. Starting a business is better than working at a little startup, in my opinion. And there's no reason why you can't do one or both while in school. 6. Not arguing with you about grades, but that's missing the point. College shouldn't be about getting good grades, it should be about broadening your experience of life. If you spent 4 years locked in a room studying engineering, then yes, you'd be better off not going.
- nirvana 14y ago
  1. This has not been my experience. I've sent my resume to these kinds of companies "non tech" companies, at various periods and have had no trouble getting gigs with them (I was consulting at the time.) 2. This is pure prejudice. It may be true for many people, but it is not universally true. Some people go to college having no idea what they want to be. That was me and I studied physics but it quickly became clear that software was what I cared about (originally I thought it had been electronics.) It wasn't the exposure to physics that made it clear I wanted to do software. Plus the terrible "exposure" of college to Economics, Sociology, Philosophy, and History turned me off of those subjects for a few years... then later, I started reading up on them, and have become more proficient in 2 of them on my own than I would have been if I'd majored in them in college. College doesn't make you more well rounded. You can sleep thru all those classes. Its not like you can't order all the literature you want from amazon.com, or see great paintings at museums or on the internet. What it does is force you to spend time on things that are outside your subject area-- and that would be valuable if college delivered anything useful about them, but it doesn't. Those classes are a full employment program for liberal arts graduates. 3. I think you're speaking from a lack of experience here- because if you'd ever started and grown a business, you'd know it has an impact on many aspects of your life. For instance, my deep love of history and economics were as a result of starting and growing a tech business. Economics is important to business, for obvious reasons, history less so. Further, your response shows a form of anti-intellectualism that is the real crime of colleges. They actually teach people not to think, in a way, but to believe. The anti-business perspective is a real shame, because its actually anti-life. (It was my study of philosophy that helped me understand that.) 4. A degree shows nothing, and is not required. You only think a degree is required for advancement because you've not been working in the real world. What determines advancement is performance usually, though often politics and the external state of the company with regards to your area of it (Eg: having a good year or not.) Nobody remembers you don't have a degree. 5. Starting a business is better than being an employee of a little startup, which is better than going to college. But yes, you can do either while going to college, though you're trading off the amount of education you'll get in favor of spending time at college. 6. People who need their life experiences broadened by college aren't really going to get it in college. Oh, wait, you're talking about partying, right? At any rate, I think you've got a false dichotomy going here. Whether you are broad minded and well rounded is determined whether you are curious about things and follow up on that curiosity, not being forced to sit thru some really low level "education" in subjects you're not interested in. It comes from pursuing your interests without regard for which subject matter they lead you to.

by nirvana 14y ago

keiferski 14y ago

1. I don't make the hiring decisions at most companies. Fact is, at most companies outside of the HN-SV-tech startup world, a degree shows that you're competent, and you're facing an uphill battle without one. 2. College exposes you to subjects that you normally wouldn't be exposed to. Being an engineer is a respectable profession, but if you've never actually tried other subjects, how could you know if it's the right career for you? Or for that matter, how would you be exposed to some of the best things in life, like literature and art? Sure, you could just go to the library, but quite frankly, most people don't know what they don't know. College isn't going to make you into a Renaissance man, but a few years of courses in various subjects will help you develop into a more well-rounded person. 3. I agree that outside-the-classroom experience is essential, but working at a random startup company isn't going to expose you to anything except running a business and the narrow niche it occupies. Great stuff for learning about entrepreneurship, but useless when it comes to basically anything else. You aren't going to learn about humanism or the philosophy of science at your web 2.0 app startup. 4. You'd have a degree, which shows a baseline of competence and is required for advancement in many companies. 5. Starting a business is better than working at a little startup, in my opinion. And there's no reason why you can't do one or both while in school. 6. Not arguing with you about grades, but that's missing the point. College shouldn't be about getting good grades, it should be about broadening your experience of life. If you spent 4 years locked in a room studying engineering, then yes, you'd be better off not going.

nirvana 14y ago
1. This has not been my experience. I've sent my resume to these kinds of companies "non tech" companies, at various periods and have had no trouble getting gigs with them (I was consulting at the time.) 2. This is pure prejudice. It may be true for many people, but it is not universally true. Some people go to college having no idea what they want to be. That was me and I studied physics but it quickly became clear that software was what I cared about (originally I thought it had been electronics.) It wasn't the exposure to physics that made it clear I wanted to do software. Plus the terrible "exposure" of college to Economics, Sociology, Philosophy, and History turned me off of those subjects for a few years... then later, I started reading up on them, and have become more proficient in 2 of them on my own than I would have been if I'd majored in them in college. College doesn't make you more well rounded. You can sleep thru all those classes. Its not like you can't order all the literature you want from amazon.com, or see great paintings at museums or on the internet. What it does is force you to spend time on things that are outside your subject area-- and that would be valuable if college delivered anything useful about them, but it doesn't. Those classes are a full employment program for liberal arts graduates. 3. I think you're speaking from a lack of experience here- because if you'd ever started and grown a business, you'd know it has an impact on many aspects of your life. For instance, my deep love of history and economics were as a result of starting and growing a tech business. Economics is important to business, for obvious reasons, history less so. Further, your response shows a form of anti-intellectualism that is the real crime of colleges. They actually teach people not to think, in a way, but to believe. The anti-business perspective is a real shame, because its actually anti-life. (It was my study of philosophy that helped me understand that.) 4. A degree shows nothing, and is not required. You only think a degree is required for advancement because you've not been working in the real world. What determines advancement is performance usually, though often politics and the external state of the company with regards to your area of it (Eg: having a good year or not.) Nobody remembers you don't have a degree. 5. Starting a business is better than being an employee of a little startup, which is better than going to college. But yes, you can do either while going to college, though you're trading off the amount of education you'll get in favor of spending time at college. 6. People who need their life experiences broadened by college aren't really going to get it in college. Oh, wait, you're talking about partying, right? At any rate, I think you've got a false dichotomy going here. Whether you are broad minded and well rounded is determined whether you are curious about things and follow up on that curiosity, not being forced to sit thru some really low level "education" in subjects you're not interested in. It comes from pursuing your interests without regard for which subject matter they lead you to.