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Think of tech like chemistry class. We don't let kids carry around chemicals all day to use however they want. Instead, we have them do experiments in a special

Think of tech like chemistry class. We don't let kids carry around chemicals all day to use however they want. Instead, we have them do experiments in a special lab under close watch. Computers should be treated the same way. They shouldn't be something students can use anytime, anywhere without guidance. Just like we handle dangerous chemicals with care, we should also be careful with technology. It's powerful, and if not used correctly, it can be harmful. Let's make sure when kids use computers, it's in a controlled environment, where they can learn safely and responsibly. Treat tech with respect, just like we do with chemistry.

lukan 3y ago
Chemistry is something that can explode and poison you. And a normal person cannot buy dangerous chemicals (that easily). Computers are normal in everyday life and allmost every job. Whether it is research, or writing or programming - artificially seperating students from such a integral part of modern life seems not that practical. At least not, if the goal is to raise the general level of computer savviness - which I think is currently way too low. With the result of people not understanding that they are the product in social networks etc.
- dalore 3y ago
  Computers can and are being used to poison the mind. You can get distracted, you can play games, you can go on sites like chat roulette which are popular with the kids etc Knives are used in everyday life and can't explode or poison you either, yet we don't let our kids run around with knives for example. So saying if something can or can't explode is not a useful metric. Teaching them how to use a computer under guidance, is useful and so should be treated like a tool to be taught on how to use. Not just handed out willy nilly.
  - lukan 3y ago
    "yet we don't let our kids run around with knives for example." Actually some do. Boy scouts traditionally for example do not think, that kids are generally to be treated as idiots. So yes, you do not give a knive to someone who cannot handle it. There are 20 year olds who should not be given anything sharper than a plastic knive. But a ordinary child usually can handle dangerous stuff - you lead them there, step by step. Same with computers, smartphones etc. If neccessary, you can provide a locked down environment at first, with only approved apps and sites (or no internet at all). But one day, they need to handle it all, without someone holding their hands. And they cannot learn it, if they always only navigated a locked down safe space.
    - dalore 3y ago
      Sounds like we agree. Given the right instructions and environment, tools are useful. Handing out knives/computers/chemistry sets without training and unsupervised does not help.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  While the chemistry analogy is good, the problem is not with computers per se. Children who are so inclined should be allowed to have personal computers (like Raspberry Pi) for experimentation. They should also be warned about the potential harms as part of their technological education. Children who are adept at typing should be allowed small laptops for note taking. These are just tools. Kids are not all the same, and choice is paramount here. The issue is not the computers but the awful and toxic software that gets onto them. Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Instagram... and other edu-tech wares have absolutely no place in our schools. They stifle curiosity and free-thinking, and impose meek compliance, and deference to authoritarian values. These are commercial concerns that intrude into places they have no right to, whose objectives are fundamentally misaligned with education because they exploit, extract, distract, manipulate, spy, addict demotivate young minds. Teaching kids about technology is essential, and should include teaching them proper scepticism and caution. Allowing children to be taught by technology is an abdication of responsibility by schools, teachers and parents.
- ben_w 3y ago
  > Chemistry is something that can explode and poison you. And a normal person cannot buy dangerous chemicals (that easily). ??? I know of at least two distinct ways to make a toxic chemical using only things found in an entirely normal kitchen[0], and that's just using the things I was taught at school. Both methods also produce an explosive gas as a side product. [0] And that's not just a joke at the expense of British cuisine
fullspectrumdev 3y ago
Not long ago (before the GWoT) you could just buy pretty damn good chemistry sets intended for children, that contained some pretty fun stuff. Then due to fear of drug labs and terrorism, those largely became relics of a better past.
- goosedragons 3y ago
  But it would still be frowned upon for Billy and Suzy to take one out in the middle of an English lesson and start doing experiments. You can still buy a computer for your kid, let them do experiments and mess around but like the chemistry set it probably shouldn't be used in the middle of class.
ants_everywhere 3y ago
The dirty secret is that a lot of teaching is being offloaded to proprietary education programs, at least in elementary school. So like it or not, computers are increasingly becoming not only a sideshow but a primary part of the fabric of education. Part of me wants to see a program where students have to build everything from scratch before they can use it. Like each student gets something like a Rasberry Pi and they have to install an text based OS and then make the graphics stack work. If kids are smart enough to play Minecraft and legos they're smart enough to make something like that work. But basically no teacher would be qualified to teach it or troubleshoot, especially given how poorly we pay teachers currently.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
op00to 3y ago
We absolutely let kids carry around chemicals all day to use however they want. Children carry water, which is a chemical. Children carry foods which contain chemicals. Children may carry a rescue inhaler, which contains chemicals. Hand sanitizer. Art supplies. Personal care products. Makeup.

lukan 3y ago

Chemistry is something that can explode and poison you. And a normal person cannot buy dangerous chemicals (that easily). Computers are normal in everyday life and allmost every job. Whether it is research, or writing or programming - artificially seperating students from such a integral part of modern life seems not that practical. At least not, if the goal is to raise the general level of computer savviness - which I think is currently way too low. With the result of people not understanding that they are the product in social networks etc.

dalore 3y ago
Computers can and are being used to poison the mind. You can get distracted, you can play games, you can go on sites like chat roulette which are popular with the kids etc Knives are used in everyday life and can't explode or poison you either, yet we don't let our kids run around with knives for example. So saying if something can or can't explode is not a useful metric. Teaching them how to use a computer under guidance, is useful and so should be treated like a tool to be taught on how to use. Not just handed out willy nilly.
- lukan 3y ago
  "yet we don't let our kids run around with knives for example." Actually some do. Boy scouts traditionally for example do not think, that kids are generally to be treated as idiots. So yes, you do not give a knive to someone who cannot handle it. There are 20 year olds who should not be given anything sharper than a plastic knive. But a ordinary child usually can handle dangerous stuff - you lead them there, step by step. Same with computers, smartphones etc. If neccessary, you can provide a locked down environment at first, with only approved apps and sites (or no internet at all). But one day, they need to handle it all, without someone holding their hands. And they cannot learn it, if they always only navigated a locked down safe space.
  - dalore 3y ago
    Sounds like we agree. Given the right instructions and environment, tools are useful. Handing out knives/computers/chemistry sets without training and unsupervised does not help.
nonrandomstring 3y ago
While the chemistry analogy is good, the problem is not with computers per se. Children who are so inclined should be allowed to have personal computers (like Raspberry Pi) for experimentation. They should also be warned about the potential harms as part of their technological education. Children who are adept at typing should be allowed small laptops for note taking. These are just tools. Kids are not all the same, and choice is paramount here. The issue is not the computers but the awful and toxic software that gets onto them. Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Instagram... and other edu-tech wares have absolutely no place in our schools. They stifle curiosity and free-thinking, and impose meek compliance, and deference to authoritarian values. These are commercial concerns that intrude into places they have no right to, whose objectives are fundamentally misaligned with education because they exploit, extract, distract, manipulate, spy, addict demotivate young minds. Teaching kids about technology is essential, and should include teaching them proper scepticism and caution. Allowing children to be taught by technology is an abdication of responsibility by schools, teachers and parents.
ben_w 3y ago
> Chemistry is something that can explode and poison you. And a normal person cannot buy dangerous chemicals (that easily). ??? I know of at least two distinct ways to make a toxic chemical using only things found in an entirely normal kitchen[0], and that's just using the things I was taught at school. Both methods also produce an explosive gas as a side product. [0] And that's not just a joke at the expense of British cuisine

fullspectrumdev 3y ago

Not long ago (before the GWoT) you could just buy pretty damn good chemistry sets intended for children, that contained some pretty fun stuff. Then due to fear of drug labs and terrorism, those largely became relics of a better past.

goosedragons 3y ago
But it would still be frowned upon for Billy and Suzy to take one out in the middle of an English lesson and start doing experiments. You can still buy a computer for your kid, let them do experiments and mess around but like the chemistry set it probably shouldn't be used in the middle of class.

ants_everywhere 3y ago

The dirty secret is that a lot of teaching is being offloaded to proprietary education programs, at least in elementary school. So like it or not, computers are increasingly becoming not only a sideshow but a primary part of the fabric of education. Part of me wants to see a program where students have to build everything from scratch before they can use it. Like each student gets something like a Rasberry Pi and they have to install an text based OS and then make the graphics stack work. If kids are smart enough to play Minecraft and legos they're smart enough to make something like that work. But basically no teacher would be qualified to teach it or troubleshoot, especially given how poorly we pay teachers currently.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

op00to 3y ago

We absolutely let kids carry around chemicals all day to use however they want. Children carry water, which is a chemical. Children carry foods which contain chemicals. Children may carry a rescue inhaler, which contains chemicals. Hand sanitizer. Art supplies. Personal care products. Makeup.