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> At some point apple will just leave the market. maybe a good thing. yanis varoufakis said EU had become irrelevant in tech. more investment can go to local

> At some point apple will just leave the market. maybe a good thing. yanis varoufakis said EU had become irrelevant in tech. more investment can go to local tech instead of US monopolies.

adastra22 3y ago
I would love for there to be a vibrant European tech scene. But these same sort of business-hostile behavior is exactly why there isn't a European version of Silicon Valley.
- dedene 3y ago
  That is not true at all
  - adastra22 3y ago
    You're free to think otherwise, but this is what I've been repeatedly told by entrepreneurs in Europe (who mostly copy US ideas), and europeans living in Silicon Valley (who came here to innovate in ways they can't back home).
    - qngcdvy 3y ago
      Yeah or it's just the capital that has been there in abundance. Spawned from the defense industry, thriving through the money made in the 2000s and after by creating profits all over the world (ads!) and then evading taxation as much as possible while funneling the money back to the valley and hiring the world's best talent to keep that first place. The small business owner pays taxes because what else can they do? Big corps go through tax-havens and relocations and don't do so, while profiting off of the infrastructure paid for by taxes (=> enabling customers over seas to even buy iphones). Traditional companies ship physical products and/or employ more people in the respective countries, while they also try to evade taxation I think those circumstances make them a much better subject to it though. Really, the more I keep on talking to my friends in the Valley the more it boils down to the money factor. Salaries, VCs and all the likes. I don't say Europe shouldn't be less business hostile, but one should see the Valley the way it is and realize that just buy changing the laws and trying to copy it Europe can't succeed. They should find their own path.
    - rglullis 3y ago
      They can't make money like they do in the US, but I'd argue that good innovation - that increases the welfare of the people and is meant to bring universal progress - still is more abundant in Europe than in SV.
    - fxtentacle 3y ago
      That's a strong selection bias because you'll never meet people who stay in Europe because they like running a business there.
      - adastra22 3y ago
        My work routinely takes me to Europe to interact with these people. I’m not in traditional tech.
- herbst 3y ago
  We don't need a silicon valley. No need for a ultra concentrated tech valley. We have many small tech valleys all over Europe. With many many good, honest, privacy respecting companies. We just don't have that unicorn culture. But do we need highly overvalued tech businesses?
  - Bancakes 3y ago
    Who wants that? A market made up of clustered, small-time players that don’t have to live up to standards, and don’t have their hide in the game? A market made up of clones and forks, all worse than the prop competition.
    - herbst 3y ago
      Not sure if you are sarcastic. But that is exactly the reason why we have such a abundance of high quality products and depend way less on mid quality products of big brands. Alone food quality is on a whole different level in Europe, exactly because we have, allow and welcome small time players reinventing the market.
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    Vilnius is sometimes touted as new valley yet hosts all the shady VPN companies that engage in hacking your home cameras, routers and tv's so they can offer IP addresses at residential space! They are just as privacy invasive as US albeit with less financing which means they are even more ruthless and hostile.
    - herbst 3y ago
      See, good that there are many places, so that the VPN bullshit can't make the other cool places a bad name.
- flgstnd 3y ago
  > business-hostile behavior trying to regulate monopolies is business-hostile? maybe sometimes its needed to hurt a monopolist business in order to .. enable competition..
- maeln 3y ago
  > I would love for there to be a vibrant European tech scene. But there is ? Go to Paris, Berlin, Lisboa, Barcelona, ... There is a lot of start-ups, incubator, investor, meet-ups, conference, etc. The EU has a very vibrant tech scene. It is probably more distributed than the U.S, by nature, and not on the same scale. But acting as if the E.U is some sort of ludite, back water, hostile to business, is just plain wrong and huge exaggeration.
  - alpaca128 3y ago
    The issue to me is less about the existence of a tech scene and more about reliance. A European app running on locked down hardware with permission of a megacorporation (US or not) doesn't make you much less dependent.
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    It's not EU that's hostile, but employment laws in most countries which make it extremely hard to fire people or hire contractors.
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  Do we really want the venture capital grift machine on these shores? I mean, I indirectly benefit from the grift, but I am not one to put some lipstick on this particular pig.

> At some point apple will just leave the market. maybe a good thing. yanis varoufakis said EU had become irrelevant in tech. more investment can go to local tech instead of US monopolies.

adastra22 3y ago

I would love for there to be a vibrant European tech scene. But these same sort of business-hostile behavior is exactly why there isn't a European version of Silicon Valley.

dedene 3y ago
That is not true at all
- adastra22 3y ago
  You're free to think otherwise, but this is what I've been repeatedly told by entrepreneurs in Europe (who mostly copy US ideas), and europeans living in Silicon Valley (who came here to innovate in ways they can't back home).
  - qngcdvy 3y ago
    Yeah or it's just the capital that has been there in abundance. Spawned from the defense industry, thriving through the money made in the 2000s and after by creating profits all over the world (ads!) and then evading taxation as much as possible while funneling the money back to the valley and hiring the world's best talent to keep that first place. The small business owner pays taxes because what else can they do? Big corps go through tax-havens and relocations and don't do so, while profiting off of the infrastructure paid for by taxes (=> enabling customers over seas to even buy iphones). Traditional companies ship physical products and/or employ more people in the respective countries, while they also try to evade taxation I think those circumstances make them a much better subject to it though. Really, the more I keep on talking to my friends in the Valley the more it boils down to the money factor. Salaries, VCs and all the likes. I don't say Europe shouldn't be less business hostile, but one should see the Valley the way it is and realize that just buy changing the laws and trying to copy it Europe can't succeed. They should find their own path.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    They can't make money like they do in the US, but I'd argue that good innovation - that increases the welfare of the people and is meant to bring universal progress - still is more abundant in Europe than in SV.
  - fxtentacle 3y ago
    That's a strong selection bias because you'll never meet people who stay in Europe because they like running a business there.
    - adastra22 3y ago
      My work routinely takes me to Europe to interact with these people. I’m not in traditional tech.
herbst 3y ago
We don't need a silicon valley. No need for a ultra concentrated tech valley. We have many small tech valleys all over Europe. With many many good, honest, privacy respecting companies. We just don't have that unicorn culture. But do we need highly overvalued tech businesses?
- Bancakes 3y ago
  Who wants that? A market made up of clustered, small-time players that don’t have to live up to standards, and don’t have their hide in the game? A market made up of clones and forks, all worse than the prop competition.
  - herbst 3y ago
    Not sure if you are sarcastic. But that is exactly the reason why we have such a abundance of high quality products and depend way less on mid quality products of big brands. Alone food quality is on a whole different level in Europe, exactly because we have, allow and welcome small time players reinventing the market.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Vilnius is sometimes touted as new valley yet hosts all the shady VPN companies that engage in hacking your home cameras, routers and tv's so they can offer IP addresses at residential space! They are just as privacy invasive as US albeit with less financing which means they are even more ruthless and hostile.
  - herbst 3y ago
    See, good that there are many places, so that the VPN bullshit can't make the other cool places a bad name.
flgstnd 3y ago
> business-hostile behavior trying to regulate monopolies is business-hostile? maybe sometimes its needed to hurt a monopolist business in order to .. enable competition..
maeln 3y ago
> I would love for there to be a vibrant European tech scene. But there is ? Go to Paris, Berlin, Lisboa, Barcelona, ... There is a lot of start-ups, incubator, investor, meet-ups, conference, etc. The EU has a very vibrant tech scene. It is probably more distributed than the U.S, by nature, and not on the same scale. But acting as if the E.U is some sort of ludite, back water, hostile to business, is just plain wrong and huge exaggeration.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  The issue to me is less about the existence of a tech scene and more about reliance. A European app running on locked down hardware with permission of a megacorporation (US or not) doesn't make you much less dependent.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  It's not EU that's hostile, but employment laws in most countries which make it extremely hard to fire people or hire contractors.
surgical_fire 3y ago
Do we really want the venture capital grift machine on these shores? I mean, I indirectly benefit from the grift, but I am not one to put some lipstick on this particular pig.