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It's really quite incredible that one guy basically started a project to create a whole operating system from scratch for fun and to give himself something inte

It's really quite incredible that one guy basically started a project to create a whole operating system from scratch for fun and to give himself something interesting to do, and then accidentally created one of the most viable new browser engines in a decade or two... I've been watching the development videos for a year or two, and the speed that this has progressed in such a short time is unbelievable. Now they have multiple volunteers and enough sponsorship to pay more than one developer, it's pretty exciting what could happen here!

pjerem 3y ago
Wasn’t this guy working in the WebKit team at Apple for years before ? It’s still really impressive but he is not the new kid in town when we talk about developing browsers.
- jraph 3y ago
  Yes, he was.
  - jart 3y ago
    He was probably their top guy too. Sort of like how Lucifer was the top angel in Heaven before his drug problems brought about his fall from Apple and since then he's been a true light bringer working tirelessly to give us awesome software as he recovers from addition.
    - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
      I mean Lucifer writing software tracks
    - ireadmevs 3y ago
      > as he recovers from addition. Divide and conquer for the win!
- sowbug 3y ago
  "It takes 20 years to make an overnight success."
kouru225 3y ago
I can’t tell from the link. What makes it so viable?
- gkbrk 3y ago
  Compared to a lot of other new browser engines, this one actually renders a lot of web content decently. And if you follow their update videos, they improve their coverage really quickly. Ladybird also comes with their LibJS runtime, which has good coverage of the JS standards and even manages to implement some new features before the big browsers all get to it.
  - fersarr 3y ago
    Sorry, could you explain what this means "this one actually renders a lot of web content decently."?
    - TheCoreh 3y ago
      When you open sites on other "new" browser engines you typically get a really butchered visual result, with layouts completely broken, elements missing, wrong colors, etc. For example, Servo didn't support floats until recently, and IIRC even simple sites like Hacker News look "wrong". Ladybird's approach has been to start with a somewhat naive implementation of features, then choose popular websites and apps and just continuously iterate to make them gradually look better, by fixing the parts that stand out. This pragmatic approach means that their supported feature set, while nowhere near 100%, can decently render 90% of websites due to being aligned with the most commonly used features.
      - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
        I can't relate / do not recognise these claims of incorrect rendering; is there a resource out there that shows images of how it's supposed to be vs what it looks like? I thought this was a problem of the past, IE compatibility with web standards kind of thing.
jll29 3y ago
He is a world expert on Web rendering, and an extremely capable C++ developer. One of their success recipes is to code up the various specifications directly, which is - today - the best way to go about this. They are also heavily test-driven. He did not even use the C++ standard library, when he says "from scratch" it includes his own string class, for better or worse, which is fine since it's "just for fun", "to learn" etc. And just when you think a library and an OS are crazy, he announced a browser and a JavaScript engine on top. Then a JIT compiler, then Jakt, their own novel programming language, because neither C++ nor Rust is what makes him perfectly happy. More than his expertise I admire his modesty and kindness - unlike Linus etc. he is not full of himself, and each of his videos gives lots of credit name by name of who did what. A perfect role model for open source.
- LeFantome 3y ago
  I think their C++ library is one of the reasons they can create capable software so quickly actually. They have jetisoned just a tonne of C++ nonesense and added some really nice modern features such as how they handle memory and errors. Also, you would think that having to implement EVERYTHING themselves ( they are making their own image decoders as an example -- inclding SVG ) would slow them down. However, as it is written in a mono-repo from soup to nuts, this allows them to very rapidly add support throughout the stack. They do not have any of the endless conversation and arguing that happens between components in Open Source. They do not have to work around things missing upstream. If they need something, they add it.
  - jorvi 3y ago
    > they are making their own image decoders as an example -- inclding SVG Considering the vast amount of exploits that continually comes out of media decoders everywhere, this basically guarantees I will never ever use this browser.
    - gkbrk 3y ago
      That's fine, I'm sure they weren't targeting only you when they developed it. So it will still have utility for the developers of the project and other users.
zerd 3y ago
I learned about the project from the co-recursive podcast episode. Fascinating story. https://corecursive.com/serenity-os-with-andreas-kling/ https://corecursive.com/serenity-os-with-andreas-kling/
twiclo 3y ago
What could happen? Why is a new browser engine needed?

pjerem 3y ago

Wasn’t this guy working in the WebKit team at Apple for years before ? It’s still really impressive but he is not the new kid in town when we talk about developing browsers.

jraph 3y ago
Yes, he was.
- jart 3y ago
  He was probably their top guy too. Sort of like how Lucifer was the top angel in Heaven before his drug problems brought about his fall from Apple and since then he's been a true light bringer working tirelessly to give us awesome software as he recovers from addition.
  - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
    I mean Lucifer writing software tracks
  - ireadmevs 3y ago
    > as he recovers from addition. Divide and conquer for the win!
sowbug 3y ago
"It takes 20 years to make an overnight success."

kouru225 3y ago

I can’t tell from the link. What makes it so viable?

gkbrk 3y ago
Compared to a lot of other new browser engines, this one actually renders a lot of web content decently. And if you follow their update videos, they improve their coverage really quickly. Ladybird also comes with their LibJS runtime, which has good coverage of the JS standards and even manages to implement some new features before the big browsers all get to it.
- fersarr 3y ago
  Sorry, could you explain what this means "this one actually renders a lot of web content decently."?
  - TheCoreh 3y ago
    When you open sites on other "new" browser engines you typically get a really butchered visual result, with layouts completely broken, elements missing, wrong colors, etc. For example, Servo didn't support floats until recently, and IIRC even simple sites like Hacker News look "wrong". Ladybird's approach has been to start with a somewhat naive implementation of features, then choose popular websites and apps and just continuously iterate to make them gradually look better, by fixing the parts that stand out. This pragmatic approach means that their supported feature set, while nowhere near 100%, can decently render 90% of websites due to being aligned with the most commonly used features.
    - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
      I can't relate / do not recognise these claims of incorrect rendering; is there a resource out there that shows images of how it's supposed to be vs what it looks like? I thought this was a problem of the past, IE compatibility with web standards kind of thing.

jll29 3y ago

He is a world expert on Web rendering, and an extremely capable C++ developer. One of their success recipes is to code up the various specifications directly, which is - today - the best way to go about this. They are also heavily test-driven. He did not even use the C++ standard library, when he says "from scratch" it includes his own string class, for better or worse, which is fine since it's "just for fun", "to learn" etc. And just when you think a library and an OS are crazy, he announced a browser and a JavaScript engine on top. Then a JIT compiler, then Jakt, their own novel programming language, because neither C++ nor Rust is what makes him perfectly happy. More than his expertise I admire his modesty and kindness - unlike Linus etc. he is not full of himself, and each of his videos gives lots of credit name by name of who did what. A perfect role model for open source.

LeFantome 3y ago
I think their C++ library is one of the reasons they can create capable software so quickly actually. They have jetisoned just a tonne of C++ nonesense and added some really nice modern features such as how they handle memory and errors. Also, you would think that having to implement EVERYTHING themselves ( they are making their own image decoders as an example -- inclding SVG ) would slow them down. However, as it is written in a mono-repo from soup to nuts, this allows them to very rapidly add support throughout the stack. They do not have any of the endless conversation and arguing that happens between components in Open Source. They do not have to work around things missing upstream. If they need something, they add it.
- jorvi 3y ago
  > they are making their own image decoders as an example -- inclding SVG Considering the vast amount of exploits that continually comes out of media decoders everywhere, this basically guarantees I will never ever use this browser.
  - gkbrk 3y ago
    That's fine, I'm sure they weren't targeting only you when they developed it. So it will still have utility for the developers of the project and other users.

zerd 3y ago

I learned about the project from the co-recursive podcast episode. Fascinating story. https://corecursive.com/serenity-os-with-andreas-kling/ https://corecursive.com/serenity-os-with-andreas-kling/

twiclo 3y ago

What could happen? Why is a new browser engine needed?