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I would love to use this as my daily driver, but a lot of popular sites don't even work with Firefox. I hate what a small group of lazy front-end people have d

I would love to use this as my daily driver, but a lot of popular sites don't even work with Firefox. I hate what a small group of lazy front-end people have done to our world...

la_oveja 3y ago
small group of lazy front-end people? i think you actually mean a small group of chrome developers single-handedly deciding how web should work, while having the vast majority of the market share to push those decisions.
- kramerger 3y ago
  No, I blame it on front-end people. I've seen them putting all effort on eye-candy while ignoring that the page only works on "retina" display and then only on Safari.
  - mattlondon 3y ago
    Blame the UX and Product Managers, not the engineers.
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  Well, no, that is not how it works. Blink undoubtedly has an oversize influence on 'web standards' (which are more and more defined as 'whatever Blink does') but that would not be that much of a problem if web developers built and tested their sites against more than just Chrome and Edge (Blink) and Safari (Webkit). History is repeating itself since the same thing happened when Microsoft's Internet Explo[rd]er was the dominant browser and developers only tested against that, putting a 'Best viewed using Internet Explorer' badge on their sites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars
  - la_oveja 3y ago
    i am aware, i work as webdev and my current project is only Blink compatible. my employer does not want me to waste any time ensuring i support other browsers that are not going to be used. web should be able to be viewed in any browser and get the same document.
  - benrutter 3y ago
    I'm not particularly experienced with web browsers, but whenever I hear people who know what they're talking about, I always leave convinced that this is exactly the problem. If there are sites that work on Chrome but not Firefox, it just seems to me that either: - Chrome or Firefox must be breaking web standards - Web standards must be unspecified for that use case I have no idea the fix though, the web is so massively complex now, that I don't even know what specifying standards for every use case would involve.
    - timw4mail 3y ago
      Most web standards are codifying existing functionality, not the other way around. Chrome/Blink has exclusive APIs, that often are not on track to be a standard. This makes Safari (Webkit) and Firefox (Gecko) look bad, because they end up having to implement the same APIs, and then, maybe, it's standardized. Browser extension APIs come to mind. I wish the situation was more neat and tidy, but it's not.
- MatthiasPortzel 3y ago
  As a web developer, the things that bother me the most are the small differences in edge cases between the rendering engines. What happens when you put a percentage height on a row in a table. What happens when an element has a margin that doesn’t fit in its parent. How does adding display: flex effect how text is laid out inside an element. These are things that Gecko and WebKit/Blink handle differently. Some of them are defined in the spec and have tracking bugs, but some of them just aren’t addressed. I don’t think it’s maliciousness or laziness on anyone’s part, but the web is too complicated for there to be multiple perfectly compatible rendering engines.
jraph 3y ago
> but a lot of popular sites don't even work with Firefox Which ones? I have always exclusively used Firefox and rarely have issues.
- angiosperm 3y ago
  I can't get Reddit to work in Firefox or Chromium. No idea why.
  - stuaxo 3y ago
    Weird, I use it with Firefox every day.
  - jraph 3y ago
    It's often an extension. Maybe you happen to use the same problematic extension(s) on both Firefox and Chromium. Maybe try with an empty profile :-)
  - nalinidash 3y ago
    You may have added it to an adblock filter list by mistake.Try disabling and trying them.
    - angiosperm 3y ago
      Nope, tried that.
      - lonkdedonk 3y ago
        A couple of things have helped me solve issues when trying to load sites in Firefox that will work in Chrome/Vivaldi, etc.: 1.) Refresh Firefox: Click the menu button with 3 lines -> "Help" -> "More troubleshooting information" -> "Refresh Firefox..." 2.) Check your Enhanced Tracking Protection settings from the Privacy & Security tab in the Settings menu. If it's set higher than Standard, it could be causing sites like reddit, sites that use Cloudflare for protection, etc., to load incorrectly or fail to load entirely.
kome 3y ago
> I would love to use this as my daily driver, but a lot of popular sites don't even work with Firefox. you mean minor aesthetics differences or functionality? I just use firefox, I don't even have chrome, and everything works. And I use mainstream web, nothing too niche.
thenoblesunfish 3y ago
Not my experience at all. Firefox works great for all the popular sites and 99+% of the unpopular ones. The trouble comes with websites that generally seem shoddy. I haven't had to install and delete Chrome for a long time!
- kgeist 3y ago
  Same. Actually I've had it the other way around a few times, when a site doesn't work in Chrome but works in Firefox. Perhaps though it was some caching issue because it worked OK in Chrome's Incognito mode. However, it was easier to just fire up Firefox than diagnose/debug Chrome.
imperialdrive 3y ago
In many many years of Firefox use, it has always loaded my sites with perhaps only one exception, but that was an odd graphics css treatment the signed out Patreon homepage used, probably fixed by now.
lemper 3y ago
what sites, bro? i see this kind of statement many times yet they never give me any answer.
- MatthiasPortzel 3y ago
  https://GitHub.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues https://GitHub.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues
sesm 3y ago
Are you sure they are lazy? Maybe they are overworked, exhausted and constantly pressured by management to output new features? Did you ever work as a front end developer?
timeon 3y ago
Interesting. I use Safari for most sites and when there is rare case that site does not work I open Firefox and it just works.
DiggyJohnson 3y ago
Which sites don't work with Firefox? I'm a daily Firefox user for 15 years now and I can count on a few fingers the amount of sites that were "broken" in FF (and weren't a legacy IE issue). This seems like hyperbole, frankly.
OkayPhysicist 3y ago
I exclusively use Firefox, and I probably browse more websites than most. I very rarely run into websites that don't work on Firefox, and I can't recall the last time I ran into a page that didn't work on Firefox when serving a Chrome UserAgent (btw, if you're a web developer and you're accessing your user's UA, you're doing something horribly wrong. Stop).

I would love to use this as my daily driver, but a lot of popular sites don't even work with Firefox. I hate what a small group of lazy front-end people have done to our world...

la_oveja 3y ago

small group of lazy front-end people? i think you actually mean a small group of chrome developers single-handedly deciding how web should work, while having the vast majority of the market share to push those decisions.

kramerger 3y ago
No, I blame it on front-end people. I've seen them putting all effort on eye-candy while ignoring that the page only works on "retina" display and then only on Safari.
- mattlondon 3y ago
  Blame the UX and Product Managers, not the engineers.
the_third_wave 3y ago
Well, no, that is not how it works. Blink undoubtedly has an oversize influence on 'web standards' (which are more and more defined as 'whatever Blink does') but that would not be that much of a problem if web developers built and tested their sites against more than just Chrome and Edge (Blink) and Safari (Webkit). History is repeating itself since the same thing happened when Microsoft's Internet Explo[rd]er was the dominant browser and developers only tested against that, putting a 'Best viewed using Internet Explorer' badge on their sites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars
- la_oveja 3y ago
  i am aware, i work as webdev and my current project is only Blink compatible. my employer does not want me to waste any time ensuring i support other browsers that are not going to be used. web should be able to be viewed in any browser and get the same document.
- benrutter 3y ago
  I'm not particularly experienced with web browsers, but whenever I hear people who know what they're talking about, I always leave convinced that this is exactly the problem. If there are sites that work on Chrome but not Firefox, it just seems to me that either: - Chrome or Firefox must be breaking web standards - Web standards must be unspecified for that use case I have no idea the fix though, the web is so massively complex now, that I don't even know what specifying standards for every use case would involve.
  - timw4mail 3y ago
    Most web standards are codifying existing functionality, not the other way around. Chrome/Blink has exclusive APIs, that often are not on track to be a standard. This makes Safari (Webkit) and Firefox (Gecko) look bad, because they end up having to implement the same APIs, and then, maybe, it's standardized. Browser extension APIs come to mind. I wish the situation was more neat and tidy, but it's not.
MatthiasPortzel 3y ago
As a web developer, the things that bother me the most are the small differences in edge cases between the rendering engines. What happens when you put a percentage height on a row in a table. What happens when an element has a margin that doesn’t fit in its parent. How does adding display: flex effect how text is laid out inside an element. These are things that Gecko and WebKit/Blink handle differently. Some of them are defined in the spec and have tracking bugs, but some of them just aren’t addressed. I don’t think it’s maliciousness or laziness on anyone’s part, but the web is too complicated for there to be multiple perfectly compatible rendering engines.

jraph 3y ago

> but a lot of popular sites don't even work with Firefox Which ones? I have always exclusively used Firefox and rarely have issues.

angiosperm 3y ago
I can't get Reddit to work in Firefox or Chromium. No idea why.
- stuaxo 3y ago
  Weird, I use it with Firefox every day.
- jraph 3y ago
  It's often an extension. Maybe you happen to use the same problematic extension(s) on both Firefox and Chromium. Maybe try with an empty profile :-)
- nalinidash 3y ago
  You may have added it to an adblock filter list by mistake.Try disabling and trying them.
  - angiosperm 3y ago
    Nope, tried that.
    - lonkdedonk 3y ago
      A couple of things have helped me solve issues when trying to load sites in Firefox that will work in Chrome/Vivaldi, etc.: 1.) Refresh Firefox: Click the menu button with 3 lines -> "Help" -> "More troubleshooting information" -> "Refresh Firefox..." 2.) Check your Enhanced Tracking Protection settings from the Privacy & Security tab in the Settings menu. If it's set higher than Standard, it could be causing sites like reddit, sites that use Cloudflare for protection, etc., to load incorrectly or fail to load entirely.

kome 3y ago

> I would love to use this as my daily driver, but a lot of popular sites don't even work with Firefox. you mean minor aesthetics differences or functionality? I just use firefox, I don't even have chrome, and everything works. And I use mainstream web, nothing too niche.

thenoblesunfish 3y ago

Not my experience at all. Firefox works great for all the popular sites and 99+% of the unpopular ones. The trouble comes with websites that generally seem shoddy. I haven't had to install and delete Chrome for a long time!

kgeist 3y ago
Same. Actually I've had it the other way around a few times, when a site doesn't work in Chrome but works in Firefox. Perhaps though it was some caching issue because it worked OK in Chrome's Incognito mode. However, it was easier to just fire up Firefox than diagnose/debug Chrome.

imperialdrive 3y ago

In many many years of Firefox use, it has always loaded my sites with perhaps only one exception, but that was an odd graphics css treatment the signed out Patreon homepage used, probably fixed by now.

lemper 3y ago

what sites, bro? i see this kind of statement many times yet they never give me any answer.

MatthiasPortzel 3y ago
https://GitHub.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues https://GitHub.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues

sesm 3y ago

Are you sure they are lazy? Maybe they are overworked, exhausted and constantly pressured by management to output new features? Did you ever work as a front end developer?

timeon 3y ago

Interesting. I use Safari for most sites and when there is rare case that site does not work I open Firefox and it just works.

DiggyJohnson 3y ago

Which sites don't work with Firefox? I'm a daily Firefox user for 15 years now and I can count on a few fingers the amount of sites that were "broken" in FF (and weren't a legacy IE issue). This seems like hyperbole, frankly.

OkayPhysicist 3y ago

I exclusively use Firefox, and I probably browse more websites than most. I very rarely run into websites that don't work on Firefox, and I can't recall the last time I ran into a page that didn't work on Firefox when serving a Chrome UserAgent (btw, if you're a web developer and you're accessing your user's UA, you're doing something horribly wrong. Stop).